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If I'm ever in freefall with you and you lose consciousness would you rather me...

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Landing a 99 cross-brace while unconscious might preclude ever regaining consciousness. The main ia a bad idea.

The reserve, OTOH, is a 218 7-cell that would likely result in survival - if not landing without further injury.



What rig do you have and did you have to have it custom made to fit canopies of such radically different sizes? I am a newbie but most I am familiar with assume somewhat similar sizing.
"What if there were no hypothetical questions?"

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Landing a 99 cross-brace while unconscious might preclude ever regaining consciousness. The main ia a bad idea.

The reserve, OTOH, is a 218 7-cell that would likely result in survival - if not landing without further injury.



What rig do you have and did you have to have it custom made to fit canopies of such radically different sizes? I am a newbie but most I am familiar with assume somewhat similar sizing.



I have a number of off-the-shelf Racer Elites set up with reserves significantly larger than mains.

You need only ensure that you have a container which will accommodate your reserve and you are in business. Cross-braces take up more room than their nominal size would indicate, and I have never had any trouble keeping the main secure. I have seen people use space-fillers in the main pack tray to keep the looks in order, but making everything work together is easy with or without correcting for volume.


Blue skies,

Winsor

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Also I'd like to point out that you have possible chance that if you deploy reserve, that your main could deploy too.


I'm puzzled. How would that happen in these kinds of instances?



I've seen it happen when the person had a hard pull, had to go for reserve, next his main coming out.
From when reserve deployed it made main container lose and pin popped out

I thought that might have been what you meant. Yep, here we're talkng more like the jumper is unconscious, taking the freefall nap that can lead to the big Dirt Nap.;)

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What rig do you have and did you have to have it custom made to fit canopies of such radically different sizes? I am a newbie but most I am familiar with assume somewhat similar sizing.

Velocity Sports Equipment (B|B|) builds the Infinity with that in mind. The main and reserve container volumes can be sized independently to handle almost any combination of main and reserve. Call my buddy Kelly for more info. :)

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I'm assuming that the majority of students Billvon deploys are simply unaware, and not unconscious. Therefore the main is likely just as docile as their reserve, and when they have a canopy above their heads, they will (hopefully) go back into awareness, and be faced with a situation they're better prepared for (i.e. open main).

Wendy P.




being a student and such, I dont think most would really care if they had a main or reserve over their head, nor could they really tell the difference other than the canopy might be a different color, lol. From what i rember my main and reserve were both very similarly sized so I gurarntee that i couldnt tell you the difference. id just go through a normal canopy control check and if every thing came out ok, id just land the thing. (obviously if your instructor puled your reserve and there was a problem you got a new set of issues. . .)
Thanatos340(on landing rounds)--
Landing procedure: Hand all the way up, Feet and Knees Together and PLF soon as you get bitch slapped by a planet.

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Velocity Sports Equipment (B|B|) builds the Infinity with that in mind. The main and reserve container volumes can be sized independently to handle almost any combination of main and reserve. Call my buddy Kelly for more info. :)



I have a rig filled with two big, docile canopies but I will file this away for future reference. I won't be buying a new rig for a long time.
"What if there were no hypothetical questions?"

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What I can't fathom, is WHO THE HELL is voting for the AAD



Based on the responses so far, I'm guessing that it's people like me who realize that if they're unconscious, they're probably tumbling and flailing all over the place and to attempt such a rescue can be a particularly dangerous thing to do. The vast majority of people I jump with are not AFF instructors and have no training in recovering an out-of-control skydiver or deploying another person's canopy (either one). If you have the appropriate training and skill and you are sure you can rescue me safely, then maybe, but since the vast majority of people won't then I rather you not kill yourself trying to save me and end up with two fatalities rather than just one.

If the purpose of the poll was simply to find out which canopy I'd be more comfortable under if I was unconscious, then the answer would be reserve, but that's not how the question was written, so...

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If I'm ever in freefall with you and you lose consciousness would you rather me pull your main or go silver? Or let your AAD do the work?



Good luck catching me, unstable and unconscious... but id go for main, never know could need the reserve later.



I've witnessed a jumper fall on a formation and dislocate both shoulders. He went off on his back, fall rate all over the place, turning/spinning, and moving around on the horizontal access. One would have to be extremely aggressive to catch such a person to say the least.
Experience is what you get when you thought you were going to get something else.

AC DZ

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If I'm ever in freefall with you and you lose consciousness would you rather me pull your main or go silver? Or let your AAD do the work?



Good luck catching me, unstable and unconscious... but id go for main, never know could need the reserve later.



I've witnessed a jumper fall on a formation and dislocate both shoulders. He went off on his back, fall rate all over the place, turning/spinning, and moving around on the horizontal access. One would have to be extremely aggressive to catch such a person to say the least.



I have done my share of combat RW and have taken some pretty good shots. I have seen more than one person that was stunned but I have never had to make the decision to pull for someone yet. I Am NOT an AFF instructor but I am pretty damn sure that I am not going to hope OR assume that someone has an AAD.

I am going to try to help someone that looks like they are in trouble. I may not be able to get to them but odds are I can if I saw them anywhere near me. Personally I don't think I could live with myself if I could have helped a fellow skydiver in trouble and did nothing and they went in with a no pull because I assumed they had an AAD.

I have watched a friend in trouble from the ground with a streamer. You stand there shouting to cutaway over and over wondering why he is not cutting away as he gets closer and closer to the ground. He cut away too low and you just stand there praying for the reserve to save them but it was too low. I have watched another jumper who was out and tango uniform and was not able to do a damn thing as you stand there shouting PULL....PULL...PULL. The human body makes a sickening sound when it meets the planet at a high rate of speed. It is a sound you can NEVER get out of your head. I will opt for trying to prevent anyone else from having to hear that sound.[:/]

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I have done my share of combat RW and have taken some pretty good shots. I have seen more than one person that was stunned but I have never had to make the decision to pull for someone yet. I Am NOT an AFF instructor but I am pretty damn sure that I am not going to hope OR assume that someone has an AAD.



Don't get me wrong. Those are great sentiments and I don't think anybody wants to see someone else get hurt, but the question wasn't about whether you would rescue someone else or whether you would guess about the existence or lack of an AAD. The question is about *you* being unconscious in freefall and what you would want someone else to do for you. I don't want someone to try to rescue me. There's a fairly small percentage of us who have the knowledge and skills required to pull off such a rescue with any reasonable degree of certainty. How would you feel if you woke up in hospital after being saved by your AAD only to find out that "Bill" lost altitude in his mad dive to save you and is no longer with us.

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I have done my share of combat RW and have taken some pretty good shots. I have seen more than one person that was stunned but I have never had to make the decision to pull for someone yet. I Am NOT an AFF instructor but I am pretty damn sure that I am not going to hope OR assume that someone has an AAD.



Don't get me wrong. Those are great sentiments and I don't think anybody wants to see someone else get hurt, but the question wasn't about whether you would rescue someone else or whether you would guess about the existence or lack of an AAD. The question is about *you* being unconscious in freefall and what you would want someone else to do for you. I don't want someone to try to rescue me. There's a fairly small percentage of us who have the knowledge and skills required to pull off such a rescue with any reasonable degree of certainty. How would you feel if you woke up in hospital after being saved by your AAD only to find out that "Bill" lost altitude in his mad dive to save you and is no longer with us.



That would be a really sucky scenario... I guess it boils down to a personal decision on the person who sees you. It is a question that not many people have had to face. I will stand by my decision.............. I am VERY confident of what MY decision would be and I would back that up with my experience and my flying skills which include some pretty damn good altitude awareness and ability to catch people. I do have a very good chance of catching up to almost anyone;)

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Don't get me wrong. Those are great sentiments and I don't think anybody wants to see someone else get hurt, but the question wasn't about whether you would rescue someone else or whether you would guess about the existence or lack of an AAD. The question is about *you* being unconscious in freefall and what you would want someone else to do for you. I don't want someone to try to rescue me. There's a fairly small percentage of us who have the knowledge and skills required to pull off such a rescue with any reasonable degree of certainty. How would you feel if you woke up in hospital after being saved by your AAD only to find out that "Bill" lost altitude in his mad dive to save you and is no longer with us.



That would be a really sucky scenario... I guess it boils down to a personal decision on the person who sees you. It is a question that not many people have had to face. I will stand by my decision.............. I am VERY confident of what MY decision would be and I would back that up with my experience and my flying skills which include some pretty damn good altitude awareness and ability to catch people. I do have a very good chance of catching up to almost anyone;)



Yeah that would be a sucky thing. And I wouldn't commit suicide to try, but I WOULD try.

I've seen too much death in my life. I know what I could live with and what I couldn't.

I could live with failing, I couldn't with not trying if there was a hope that I might catch them.

Just my feelings. Your milage may vary.
Take chances, just do it with all the information to make good decisions!!

Muff Brother# 2706 Dudeist Skydiver# 121.5

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:|

How do you know I have an AAD?



Duh - In flight Pin Check.:D



Its much easier than in flight missle repair.
"I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly
DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890
I'm an asshole, and I approve this message

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:|

How do you know I have an AAD?



Duh - In flight Pin Check.:D




:|

Yeah, well, this tread reminds me of several discussions from years gone by of freshly minted static line jumpmasters discussing what to do with an unconscious student in tow... whether to John Wayne it down the static line with hook knife clenched in teeth, take hold of the student, cut the static line, dump the students reserve and then try to save oneself... of just cut the student's static line from safety of the airplane and hope the student's AAD works.


Either situation dealt is shitty.

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