Good way to exit front floater

[regulator 0]

I have been trying different 4-way exits most recently at my home dz. Let me first say that ...wow. I know RW looks easy when you watch Airspeed and the Golden Knights. But that shit's alot harder than it looks! Ok so I've been trying various exits while working on 4-way this past saturday. I found that for my body frame and size I can exit base and maintain stability just fine, but when I 'attempt' front floater I find the propwash blasting the side of my rig and my 5'11 155 lbs ass gets blown around quite a bit and both times I tried front floater I funnelled the exit. What tips can you give me for a skinny bastage like myself to get into the propwash quickly and become stable so I don't funnel the exit. I know I'm still way green when it comes to this but I don't like sucking ass! I want to get better. Any help is appreciated.

[kkeenan 13]

Try to make sure that you don't get backwards to the relative wind. As you are in the door, your front arm and leg should come off first, so that your chest is into the wind. This will allow you maintain control and start flying immediately, rather than getting flopped around. A lot of front floating is the timing of your exit - too early, and you drop below, too late, and you land on top of the rest of the exit. If you are taking a 4-way piece off, it takes practice coordinating the timing with the other three. But if your chest is into the wind, you can fly through the exit and maintain your position. You don't have too many jumps, yet, so be hang in there, be patient and keep working on it. You will acquire the feel.

Kevin K.

_____________________________________
Dude, you are so awesome...
Can I be on your ash jump ?

[regulator 0]

One of the things that I noticed was that I had both hands on the bar above the door. Should I have had my left hand free to get into the relative wind quicker? or is it ok to leave both hands on the rail?

[wmw999 2,116]

When you're in the front float position and looking at the base, it's very easy to end up exiting with your back to the wind. However, if you just keep your left hand off the bar, unless you're really, really strong, you'll either get tired or fall off the airplane.

It's a practice thing -- you'll do in the air what you practice on the ground. So ask for more exit practice when you're dirt-diving, and then practice exiting and looking at the wingtip.

If you're attached to the base that's harder, which simply means that you need to think about the mechanics of how to make it work, so that it all makes sense -- then you're more lkely to do it in freefall. And feel free to ask one of the more experienced jumpers for help (although this last weekend was pretty busy at Spaceland).

Going point on an attached base isn't the easiest slot.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[rehmwa 2]

This isn't me, this is from advice from some pros we get at our meets

Control while standing there -
I'm an OC (front outside on exit). I have a lot more control in the door with my LEFT hand on the bar whenever I can. It gives leverage against the prop blast so you leave when you want to, not when you are blown off.

Stand on the step and hold on with the left hand. Lift your left leg up and way out (like you are drying your crotch in the wind), slight bend in the right knee to start a little low so you can jump - really exaggerate this and pose for a second before the count. Yeah, the wind pushes pretty hard, that's why you're holding on with your left hand (straight arm even)..suck it up.

On the count, the knee comes in, then goes out, forward, and up (back up to the drying position). Hips out, forward and up.

The trick is to open up the hips to the wind - that'll get you stable out the door. Don't worry about your arms - they will do what your hips tell them - if you have to, just exit and open up that left armpit to help the situation.

Presentation with the others -

think - Forward and up is nice, and the inside center needs back and down - this compensates for the prop blast and takes out that nasty CC rotation (this was great advice from a pro one comp).

that position for launch is a pretty aggressive, athletic, launch. Suck it up and control your body. You'll enjoy it.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[regulator 0]

Sweet...thanks for the replies...and by the way when I left on Saturday the ladies had completed a 39-way and broke the record. I am sure since the weather was so nice both days that shattered that.

[happythoughts 0]

Most of the 4-way exits have the other floater as tail,
coming off behind the outside-center, not in front.

The problem that you describe is common to 8-way
exits where there is a front-float and front-front.
Putting 5 outside and 3 inside for piece launch.

Model your position with you hands. You should be high
and outside of the OC.
The most common issue is that the front-float doesn't
get off into the clean air to the left. Part of that is looking
to their right, watching the count, and keeping their head
turned towards the OC on exit. Then, they spin to their
right and fold under.

They way I get around this problem is to have the OC
use their left hand to lift/push them slightly up/left on exit.

So, watch the count, pick it up, and go with it - but when stepping off, look where you are going and trust
the rest of the group to do their job.
(It is similar to being an out-facing point and trusting that others will be doing their jobs. )
OC can provide a mild lift/push on exit.

[happythoughts 0]

Quote

Going point on an attached base isn't the easiest slot.

Seems like all his 4-way exits should have OC and tail,
not OC and front-float.
I think that the 4-way sheets confuse people because
they were drawn up for international competitors with
the door on the other side, like a Porter.
So, you get a mirror-image picture to work from.

He may be launching that piece bass-ackwards.

Plus, if he is light, tail might be the ideal slot for him
if his timing is good.

[wmw999 2,116]

He has 48 jumps. Point isn't easy for someone with 48 jumps, going out with other jumpers who don't know enough to coach him
It's not quite like falling off an airplane

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[happythoughts 0]

Quote

He has 48 jumps. Point isn't easy for someone with 48 jumps, going out with other jumpers who don't know enough to coach him
It's not quite like falling off an airplane

Wendy P.

That's the thing. Point is inside the plane, not front-float.

I think he is reading the competition 4-way sheet and
it is confusing him.
The Otter exit picture is mirror image of the Porter pic.

He should probably be rear-floating as tail, behind OC.
As OC, I've never had a front-float in 4-way.
The link I added shows everything.

(edited to add - Team Fastrax -
Exit photos - from multiple angles )

We really need one of the super experienced 4-way people
on here (like Ron) to chime in on this.
Going to PM him.

[muff528 3]

Yeah, at 48 jumps it might be better to free-fly a number of jumps from front-float position to get a sense of timing and stability from there. Get someone on the dive to recommend when to leave (I like to launch a split-second early and fly up to the base along with he rear floater), body position, etc. He might want to slightly push off like Bill says and concentrate on presenting himself to the wind. That way he won't be taking the entire floater side out and then spending a large part of the dive regrouping. When he gets comfortable with that he can exit linked.

[wmw999 2,116]

Good point -- he started with front float, and it morphed to point. But he started with front float. That's my story and I'm sticking to it

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[billvon 2,384]

Few points.

1) Don't think about "gotta do this with my left leg" or anything. Think about where you want your body to be 1/4 second after exit - and then launch yourself hard to put it there. For front float usually it's up and out.

2) Generally if rear leaves earlier and front leaves later things work better. On 8-way this is very apparent; on 4-way the launch is a lot tighter. But if you're going to err on one side or the other, err on the late side.

3) Get video of your exits. Nothing works better to figure out what you're doing wrong.

[regulator 0]

One of the reasons I had both of my hands on the rail is because so much prop blast was hitting the side of my rig that I felt like I needed both hands on there to support my weight without falling off. Its quite possible that I confused the position I was exiting in. The position I was having problems with is with 3 people outside and I am closest to the wing...ie the front of the door...when I did (what I was described as base) was on the opposite side closest to the tail and I had no problems with that exit. It was when I was closest to the front of the door and getting blasted by the prop blast into my rig and kept two hands on the rail and kept looking down to see the count to my right.

[Psychonaut 0]

Not sure what AC you're jumping, but one of the best tips when I first started jumping and taking front float was (on an otter) to grab the small strut that comes down underneath the wing with my left arm. Right arm will be on the bar, and I'm usually looking underneath my right arm at the count with your head tilted down. This helps you avoid turning towards the tail to see the count up and over your arm.

Stay high pull low

[NWFlyer 2]

You're describing it correctly. You were doing a fun jump and they were going all 4-way geek on you.

"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

[happythoughts 0]

Quote

You're describing it correctly. You were doing a fun jump and they were going all 4-way geek on you.

So busted.

[regulator 0]

Quote

Not sure what AC you're jumping, but one of the best tips when I first started jumping and taking front float was (on an otter) to grab the small strut that comes down underneath the wing with my left arm. Right arm will be on the bar, and I'm usually looking underneath my right arm at the count with your head tilted down. This helps you avoid turning towards the tail to see the count up and over your arm.

-------------------------------------------------

One of the gentlemen I was jumping with was telling me to grab onto that, but he said that Rabbit would get pissed if he knew I was holding onto it...Heck I was doing good just holding on where I was at. But I will try it more often the more I get out of my comfort zone and try the front float exit more. Thanks for everyones replies...I'm just trying to get better so I don't funnel the formation on exit.

And I have the luxury of living 20 minutes from Spaceland so most of the time the A/C I am jumping is an Otter.

[DanG 1]

If the pilot doesn't want you grabbing something on the plane, don't grab it.

Front float is a tough spot to exit, but with practice you'll get it. Remwa gave some great advice, it's all about presentation. A tip I used to give was to hold the bar with both hands, but bend your right elbow, and straighten your left. That turns your shoulders into the wind. The launch is just as remwa described, with an up and out motion of the left hip.

- Dan G

[brucet7 0]

Practice the good advice given here, even when not on a 4way. People might think you are crazy, but do all your exits from the front float spot, even solos. Practice makes perfect.

POPS #10623; SOS #1672

[kkeenan 13]

Quote

One of the gentlemen I was jumping with was telling me to grab onto that, but he said that Rabbit would get pissed if he knew I was holding onto it...

I'd ask the pilot specifically about that grip. As far as I know, that is used by front floaters on Otters everywhere. If your pilot doesn't like it, then don't do it. A couple of things to keep in mind if you do use it:

1) Get your fingers on the leading edge (front) of the strut. Don't wrap your fingers around it (between strut and fuselage) Your fingers may get yanked pretty hard on exit if trapped around the strut.

2) Watch out for cotter pins in the attachment hardware on and around the strut. They can be very sharp.

_____________________________________
Dude, you are so awesome...
Can I be on your ash jump ?

[Rick 67]

Quote

Quote

One of the gentlemen I was jumping with was telling me to grab onto that, but he said that Rabbit would get pissed if he knew I was holding onto it...

I'd ask the pilot specifically about that grip. As far as I know, that is used by front floaters on Otters everywhere. If your pilot doesn't like it, then don't do it. reply]

I have seen some aircraft owner's put nasty grease on the strut to keep floaters from taking a grip there. Of course I hear some people would carry a rubber glove with them and pull it off after exiting.

You can't be drunk all day if you don't start early!

[happythoughts 0]

If you are interested in jumping with 4 people and doing linked exits,
why not go with the standard 2 floaters and 2 divers configuration that 4-way teams use ?
Then you could the standard 4-way dive pool to find
cool stuff to do.

It sounds like you have 3 outside and 1 inside.
That is something more complex. The person inside
has to be very aggressive during the exit and the timing has to be better.
It can be more difficult than fun.

If you want to do front-float, that is a different thing.
As Tony said, perhaps practice that skill without grips
on the launch.

I guess I am wondering what you are attempting to do.
What is the important thing?
Launching chunks? Using 4 people? Front floating?

[rehmwa 2]

Quote

Quote

You're describing it correctly. You were doing a fun jump and they were going all 4-way geek on you.

So busted.

well, he did say "4way exits".....

the assumption I made was that his reference to "front floater" was just OC. Not 3 out, or 8 way launches or anything else. (Though I do think about 8way outside people as just hips leading and get that 45 degree stairstep picture in place for all 5 of the chunk)

However, the mechanics are similar for any outside exit - do what it take to present that hip to the wind. "think" whatever works for you to think - or not, if that works for you. Etc. Lots of pretty good advice so far in the thread.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[regulator 0]

Quote

If you are interested in jumping with 4 people and doing linked exits,
why not go with the standard 2 floaters and 2 divers configuration that 4-way teams use ?
Then you could the standard 4-way dive pool to find
cool stuff to do.

It sounds like you have 3 outside and 1 inside.
That is something more complex. The person inside
has to be very aggressive during the exit and the timing has to be better.
It can be more difficult than fun.

If you want to do front-float, that is a different thing.
As Tony said, perhaps practice that skill without grips
on the launch.

I guess I am wondering what you are attempting to do.
What is the important thing?
Launching chunks? Using 4 people? Front floating?

----------------------------------------------------------
We tried launching a chunk 4-way while linked the previous jump and that didnt work so when I was on the ground there was another jumper that was an AFF instructor to do a 5 way. So there were 3 people on the outside of the aircraft with 2 on the inside and me in the front floater position and he wanted me to free fly down to the group. Obviously that didnt work since I'm so light weight I was hovering a few feet above the formation and I didnt like being up there so I turned 90 right and got out from top of them. Now on the previous jump it WAS a 4-way with me front float and two jumpers on the inside. We tried launching a chunk but since I couldnt get into the relative wind that well the exit got funnelled. Sorry if I made that clear as mud.