Nearly Fatal accident in Spain

[mjvl 0]

I would like to get your oppinion about what happened to a friend of mine. He did his first jump some months ago in a reputable DZ in Spain. He was healthy and with any medical problem. 50 years old. He jumped in a tandem and all went right. However, after landing he felt very sick and with a "strange sensation". The instructor told him not to worry about. After 3 dayd he had to go to the hospital as he felt really really bad. The doctors examined him and diagnosed that due to forced hyperextension while jumping he had suffered a traumatic dissection of the left carotid artery what end up in a stroke. He has never recovered and has now serious problems in moving the left part of his body. He went to other doctor (neurologist) who diagnosed the same. The neurologist explainded him that the accidente happened probably when the instructor pull his neck to strong when jumping. The problem is that the responsables of the DropZone do not want to admitt or accept any responsability. Have you ever heard about any accident like this??? Do you know if this could really happen when jumping?? Any information or/and oppinion would be very much appreciated. Thank!!!

[skyrider 0]

Going by just the bit you posted, I'm thinking it is a misunderstanding of skydiving terms that has the doctor making such a claim..

A "Hard Opening" may have helped cause a problem, which is not a liabilty issue....

Thank Gawd for wavers...

[fencebuster 7]

I'm no doctor, but the opening shock on a slightly hard opening could cause internal stuff to move around and potentially rupture, I would suppose. A really hard opening can rupture an aorta, so I think this is a case of "stuff happens" to older people. I am 54 and I am well aware I am not in the same shape as most of the 20-somethings I jump with, so I try to mitigate my risks by being careful about what I do. Sorry about your friend, but I cant think of anything a TI would/could physically do to cause hyperextension of the neck. More likely, opening shock is the culprit. Just my $.02.

Charlie Gittins, 540-327-2208
AFF-I, Sigma TI, IAD-I
MEI, CFI-I, Senior Rigger
Former DZO, Blue Ridge Skydiving Adventures

[peregrinerose 0]

A LOT of people feel sick/nauseous after a tandem due to the way the harness fits, forgetting to breathe, etc., so blaming the dissection on the tandem at all might be a bit of a stretch. It may not be related at all. The kind of trauma that would cause a carotid dissection is pretty high... like car accident kind of caliber. I can't imagine what would happen during a tandem that would be that severe, other than an extremely hard opening which the instructor would have been feeling as well. Carotid dissections can just happen sporatically, without any kind of trauma at all. I'm not sure how the doctor would tell the difference between a sporatic and a traumatic dissection.... maybe there's a dz.com cardiologist that can jump in on that one.

Do or do not, there is no try -Yoda

[deltron80 0]

I think it's pretty clear that your friend forgot to check himself before he wrecked himself.

[4000m 0]

Hi,
I have a aneurysm on the left ACI (Arteria Carotid Interna) and have talked to numerous neurologists, neurosurgeons and neuroradiologists during the past months about the effects of skydiving on the arteries. I personally do not believe that the instructor pulling his head could have caused a dissection of the artery. A traumatic dissection of the CE would require a stronger force (e.g. a car accident or a real hard opening which is uncommon on a tandem) than a instructor who is trying to put your head into the correct position. I am not doctor and this post only reflects my personal opinion! To get further clarification I would highly recommend to get a proper physical examination (MRI or Angiography) by a qualified medical persion.

All the best to your friend!

Youtube: http://www.youtube.com/user/4000meter
Youtube Favorites: http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLjnVsp4Epra-PRDETgrF3M04B3X86X1eh

[Andy9o8 2]

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Thank Gawd for wavers...

Yes; this sort of thing would certainly be covered by the standard DZ waiver had it been in the US. And that's even if there was a causal connection, which according to Dr. Galbraith's (peregrinerose's) post #4, is far from certain.

[wildcard451 0]

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A LOT of people feel sick/nauseous after a tandem due to the way the harness fits, forgetting to breathe, etc., so blaming the dissection on the tandem at all might be a bit of a stretch. It may not be related at all. The kind of trauma that would cause a carotid dissection is pretty high... like car accident kind of caliber. I can't imagine what would happen during a tandem that would be that severe, other than an extremely hard opening which the instructor would have been feeling as well. Carotid dissections can just happen sporatically, without any kind of trauma at all. I'm not sure how the doctor would tell the difference between a sporatic and a traumatic dissection.... maybe there's a dz.com cardiologist that can jump in on that one.

You are right in the aspect that they can be spontaneous or traumatic. Usually with traumatic you will have an identifiable blunt force injury to the neck, with pain and progression to neurological symptoms over the next hours to days.
Spontaneous CD is a bit more difficult diagnosis to make, and requires a good bit of suspicion, as it can present as a headache in the absence of trauma, but may or may not include neurological signs initially.
Something as simple as neck manipulation from yoga, chiropractic manipulation can cause a CD, but usually the patient has underlying factors such as a connective tissue disorder / hypertension / arterial plaques.

In the end, and as completely unofficial medical banter, the likelyhood of the tandem neck manipulation causing the CD is just as likely a cause as stretching in the morning, looking up for a prolonged period to pain a ceiling, or weakening of the arterial wall being over the age of 50, as this is the most common age of presentation.
I would think that an opening shock hard enough to cause a traumatic CD would certainly have other physical ramifications, for both the passenger and the TI.

/This in no way constitutes medical advice. Please consult your local physician that has actually examined the patient.

[SkydiveJack 1]

This smells a lot like a fishing expedition by the injured tandem student’s lawyer.

[Blamey 0]

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This smells a lot like a fishing expedition by the injured tandem student’s lawyer.

Agreed.

[SkyBastard 0]

you'd be taken a lot more seriously if you could spell or use a spell checker.

'skydiving is a risk sport' did he read that and sign?

Dude #320
"Superstitious" is just a polite way of saying "incredibly fucking stupid".
DONK!

[riggerrob 623]

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This smells a lot like a fishing expedition by the injured tandem student’s lawyer.

Agreed.

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Agreed!

At age 50, I suffered a very hard opening, while strapped to the front of a TI - who was doing refresher training. At terminal velocity (180 miles per hour), tandem reserves open faaaaaar harder than tandem mains 120 miles per hour.
Remember that opening shock increases with the square of the velocity.
That hard reserve opening forced my head forward and pulled some muscles in the back of my neck and upper thorax. It took ten days and a registered massage therapist (paid for by my medical insurance) to straighten my neck.
At age 50, my heart was strong enough to do a dozen tandems per day or go for a two hour-long bike ride.

If a tandem main opened hard enough to injure a student with a healthy heart, his instructor would be grounded (by pain) for the next few days.

I suspect that the (tandem student) original victim had a weak heart before he jumped.

Even if he had a weak heart, he has few grounds to sue, because most skydiving waivers include a phrase about "I have no pre-existing medical problems ..."

Sorry, not much chance of winning this law suit.

[doughboyshred 0]

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The problem is that the responsables of the DropZone do not want to admitt or accept any responsability.

The problem is whiny pieces of shit that always attempt to place blame on others.

[Imanewdiver 0]

I am no expert with only 10 jumps but when I did perform my AFF and jumps I had this note in my Skydiver log.

I am at this dropzone by my choice. I have undertaken the sport of skydiving knowing that there are risks involved with what I am doing. I trust my AFFI to do his best to keep me safe, but at the end of the day, all that I do has been my decision. Ultimately I am responsible for all that I do. If it ends today please note that I am a skydiver and have fulfilled my desire to fly. Please note that if it ends today I am a pretty crappy skydiver, but none the less, I am a skydiver…. The $100 dollar bill attached is for the beer that is due to get me into St Peters…

[popsjumper 2]

Just to clarify, Rob.

"The doctors examined him and diagnosed that due to forced hyperextension while jumping he had suffered a traumatic dissection of the left carotid artery what end up in a stroke."

...although it doesn't specify common, internal or external.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[peregrinerose 0]

How would the doctors know that he had a 'forced hyperextension while jumping' if they were not on the skydive? Was there video of the jump? If so, can it be posted here?

Do or do not, there is no try -Yoda

[shah269 0]

The carotid artery is located infront of the neck not the back.
One way of damaging it is via moving your head back quickly or hyper extending it.
This is why older folks are not allowed to do such Yogic poses as Fish Pose
http://www.tracis.info/tracis.info.pictures/Fish%20Pose%20(Matsyasana).jpg (stop looking at her tits you perverts)
The only way that this person could have damaged the carotid artery is if they were looking up and back at the time of the had opening.

FYI to prevent injury if you are ever in an unsure position and want to protect your neck, stick your chin into your chest.

Life through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay.

The only thing that falls from the sky is birdshit and fools!

[Regan1990 0]

This definitely smells like a lawyer fishing around for some information in order to sue a DZ.
I am a tandem Instructor with over2.000 tandems, I have also filmed over 3.000 tandems and been in the sport for 19 years and have never heard of anything remotely similar, though I have experienced my share of hard openings.
It is the Tandem Instructors duty to assure that the student is in a correct position in order to assure a stable exit i.e legs back, body arched and head back resting on the instructor's shoulder, which is very far form the position illustrated by shah269.
This leads me to think that think that the accident happened elsewhere and the DZ has become yet another victim of a possible lawsuit only due to the mere fact that they provide a service for skydivers and introducing new people to our sport.
This type of ridiculous lawsuit is not the first, nor will it be the last. It is a shame that there are such unscrupulous lawyers out there trying to destroy our sport.
PS. I would like to see the guy’s real medical history i.e similar incidents in the family. I believe, and I am not a doctor, that this condition can be hereditary.

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[Andy9o8 2]

There's no lawsuit; and in any event, it was in Spain, where the rain falls (mainly) on the plain. Cool your tool, Abdul.