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swoopfly

taking gear

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Was the rig in the DZ gear room?

Also while I don't agree with someone taking your gear without your ok, I think it's pretty fucking lame of you to be a repeated "taker" and abuse the generosities that were extended to you time & time again by the DZO and staff of skydive the farm and yet when the time came for you to give back a small return on the investment in you, you choose to be a chump about it, but hey that is your right it's your gear.

However next time you dare to show up @ STF don't expect any favors from Hans like work jumps,, free parking, free camping, free showers, free coffee, free beer, free indoor packing, discount slots for family, free gear rental, free shuttle rides, free LZ shuttle rides, or any of the cool shit that makes the farm the farm.

And Hans, thank you for all the cool shit you have done for me over the years for free or for cost (MOSTLY FREE).

free coach jumps for one of my students
free gear rental for same student
free use of class room & tools @ anytime
Allowing me to bring students there and treating us like kings!
free place to crash with AC
free beer
free shuttles
free use of jumpsuits
free jumps or paid slots
discount slots for my rating
all your help in general and asking your staff to work free or for slots in order to help others.

As you know your welcome to use any of my gear at anytime without asking permission. Can't wait till I can visit again!
you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

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>What do you do to your rig that you don't want any touching it?

At Perris people touch other people's rigs all the time. Amy is a rigger up there and is always carrying people's gear around or looking at stuff on suspect rigs. Fury uses each other's rigs interchangeably. On any given day there will be a dozen people who are jumping rigs that aren't theirs - Bob will have BC's rig, Katie will have Uli's rig, Erin will have Amy's rig, Angie will be using my old Reflex.

Still, no one would use anyone's rig after being told "no, don't use it" - no matter how desperate the need.

None of the stuff you listed above matters. The issue is that you don't use someone else's rig after they tell you "no." I am sure you would feel the same way if the situation was reversed.

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The issue is that you don't use someone else's rig after they tell you "no."



I agree with that 100%. Good form or not, it is your own property and you have the final authority as to it's usage.

That said, the issue of what the actaul response to the request was still stands. The OP claims he said "no", and the DZO and another jumper claim that was not the case. Seeing as I have trouble believing that Hans would disregard a 'NO' and just take it anyway, plus the other jumper claiming the 'no' never happened, I'm leaning toward the 'no' not being the case.

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Send him a $75 invoice for gear rental.



After the free jumps and the free rental, that would take some Gull.....

As for the OP, you fucked up, bringing this here, (I am sure you know that now) You should have simply talked to the DZO....

If ya didn;t like his answer kniock him the fuck out and walk away!B|;)
(this time>>>>>) [/sarcasim]

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I can see a good number of people here, by their response, that they are indeed, socialists; plain and simple.

Who else can justify the taking of another persons property without permission? This is the same disease spreading throughout the world, the haves vs the have-not's. "entitlement". But I digress..

The DZO was free to do with his property as he felt best. His generosity, while admirable, doesn't grant him free access to another's property.

Should the OP recognize and be thankful for the DZO's generosity? hell yeah, (it does not sound as though he is not thankful though). How the OP pays back the favors granted to him by the DZO is up to him and between the two of them.



moral of the story:
private property, learn to respect it.
values and ethics, have some.
and tell the truth up front, save everyone a lot of time and hassle.



eta:

Skyrider brings up a good point.. got an issue with someone?, man up and talk to them. all too often people run off to the cops when a simple conversation could have taken care of the whole thing for good.

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Out of 200 rental jumps, i might have been thrown free rental here or there, maybe 5 out of 200? i mostly packed my ass off for that one jump a day, so i consider that paid for with money. Now me buying a rig practicly and getting 5 free rentals is a good deal on the dzo part i think.

No i paid my own slots to practice tandems. Hell if i was just given free jumps i would leave my rig at the DZ. But not so.

i do admit i had one paid for jump that did not produce sellable quality because my hypeye zoomed my camera all the way out, i am still to see how this is lack of skydiving skill. Lack of camera skill, maybe, i have had it happen (zoomed out from hitting the zoom on the box, or hypeye zooming it out about 2 times out of 300 jumps)

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Out of 200 rental jumps, i might have been thrown free rental here or there, maybe 5 out of 200? i mostly packed my ass off for that one jump a day, so i consider that paid for with money. Now me buying a rig practicly and getting 5 free rentals is a good deal on the dzo part i think.

No i paid my own slots to practice tandems. Hell if i was just given free jumps i would leave my rig at the DZ. But not so.

i do admit i had one paid for jump that did not produce sellable quality because my hypeye zoomed my camera all the way out, i am still to see how this is lack of skydiving skill. Lack of camera skill, maybe, i have had it happen (zoomed out from hitting the zoom on the box, or hypeye zooming it out about 2 times out of 300 jumps)



You have to have so much skydiving skill, that your focus is on the camera , yoru gear,and your position in the sky are just simply second nature! (not taken for granted, but automaticly handled, without distracting from your camera job!

Now, everybody makes mistakes, but when a new cameera flyer does, that shadow stays with you longer...get over it an move on!

As for the gear , he said you siad stuff?????I am still confused at to who did what...I thought the DZO explained it...

You really need to sit down with him and work this out!!

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Out of 200 rental jumps, i might have been thrown free rental here or there, maybe 5 out of 200?



Ok, so there were 5 times Hans let you jump his rig without charging you. He only asked for your rig once, and you claim to have refused. Doesn't sound very fair and balanced to me.

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i mostly packed my ass off for that one jump a day, so i consider that paid for with money.



So you packed 'x' number of rigs, and were paid for packing 'x' number of rigs. You then turned around and spent that money on jumps and gear rentals. At the end of the day, you still got paid for every rig you packed, and Hans only got paid for five fewer rentals than you actually used. How does that bolster your point?

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Now me buying a rig practicly and getting 5 free rentals is a good deal on the dzo part i think.



I'm nto sure what this means. Are you saying that you bought your rig form Hans, and becasue of that the 5 free rentals are a wash? I'm not sure how you figure. Again, these are two seperate transactions. You bought gear for an agreed upon value, and yes, Hans may have made money on the deal, but that's his livelyhood. You understand that he needs to make money on every deal or he goes broke, right? Every slot, every rental, every rig he sells all need to be at a profit, or the money comes out of his pocket.

You're fighting a losing battle. It is a very, very rare exception when the jumper throws the DZO a bone. When was the last time you heard a guy settle up at the end of the day and say tot he DZO, "I made four jumps today, but why don't I pay for five becasue I know you busted your ass today".

I've never heard it, but at the same time I've probably made 20 or 30 fun jumps that the DZO just comped me because he was being a nice guy, and felt like tossing me a freebie.

Beyond that, you realize the DZO holds the keys to the kingdom, right? Especially for a guy looking to amake a few bucks at the DZ, he's guy you want on your side. To refuse a reasonable request like borrowing your rig, and then to make a stink about it on a public forum isn't going to get you very far.

So if you had a technical glitch on a paid video slot, no big deal it happens to everyone. That would have been the perfect time for Hans to be able to look back at all the times you went out of your way to help him out, all of the times you shot a great video and made him money, at which point he writes off the mistake, and forgets about it. Do you see the hang-up? First you have to have a history of going above and beyond, and a history of successful jumps to fall back on.

Without that, your failure is an oturight loss, one that he can add on to the free rentals he gave you, and any other time he gave you more than he needed to, and he can think about them, and this thread, and I'm sure you see where this is going.

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There seem to be two completely different versions of what happened here. Regardless of which one is correct, posting this on DZ.com was the wrong approach.

Next time I would suggest that you HTFU and have it out with the person concerned there and then. Posting your problems with Hans in a public internet forum makes you seem like a whinger.

This thread is likely to affect your chances of getting work both at this dropzone and at others. If I was a DZO, I wouldn't use anyone whose approach to solving problems was to post them on DZ.com or facebook.....
The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits." -- Albert Einstein

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There seem to be two completely different versions of what happened here. Regardless of which one is correct, posting this on DZ.com was the wrong approach.

Next time I would suggest that you HTFU and have it out with the person concerned there and then. Posting your problems with Hans in a public internet forum makes you seem like a whinger.

This thread is likely to affect your chances of getting work both at this dropzone and at others. If I was a DZO, I wouldn't use anyone whose approach to solving problems was to post them on DZ.com or facebook.....



Especially in Skydiving, "one" burnt bridge, takes down dozens of others with it.....

Yuor new, (OP) and really need to be careful of burning them....

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Just to bring up another idea to handle this issue of rigs for back to back, in my dz when someone uses your rig for a back to back work jump, with your permission of course, he must report it to manifest and they keep track of it. For every seven jumps that are made on your gear you get a free fun jump, and you have control over who jumps your gear and when, assuming they arnt just taking it without asking (i would be surprised to hear that, DZs are small places mostly and skydivers love talking).

This gives us the posibility to decline (if we choose) other people using our rigs and still use other people's gear without being assholes, because they get something they want out of it. Everyone has gear to jump and control over their own rigs, and the DZ solved a big problem that can cause alot of bad blood by throwing relitivly very little money at it.

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It really doesn't matter how many comps Swoopfly was given, if he said no, then the dzo should not have taken his equipment. End of story. That being said, I believe it really doesn't matter if he said yes or no, either way "he just shit in his nest" as the saying goes.
Never Too Old

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