Problems with SkywardBoundSkydiving Reno

[psychoswooper 2]

Hate to gripe in a public forum but hell, everybody else does. Posting this here as I've seen other people get results by having a little "peer pressure" applied. And also I want to let other people know to beware of getting into arrangements with this guy and his new DZ near Reno as my experience with him has been that he makes agreements he doesn't abide by and won't pay as agreed. Basically, in my case his word was no good.
Story: Our DZ closes each Aug & I sometimes rent out unused Tandem rigs to earn some $$ during that time. shipped 2 rigs to Myk Christian in Reno . He was starting a new DZ & only had 1 rig. Different things happened, they had bad weather, lost their plane etc etc. The rigs were hardly used,(but did come back covered in that god-awful Nevada dust) so he shipped them back after 2 months. Said he'd send a check for the unpaid rentals with the rigs... Problem: He did not send the payment. That was 2 months ago. I call every couple weeks to "remind" him but he won't answer or return my calls....
The agreement was to send a check each Monday, It never happened right from the start and I wouldn't even get a call explaining why...I knew I was taking a big chance sending my rigs off to a stranger on the other side of the country, but I thought I was helping a new DZO get off the ground so to speak. I quess I won't do THAT again. Anyhow, if you do business with this guy or his DZ I suggest getting paid up front.

[skyrider 0]

Well, being as it was in Reno, you should have known it would be a Gamble!

[squirrel 0]

reminds me of a song....

"But I shot a man in Reno,
Just to watch him die..."

________________________________
Where is Darwin when you need him?

[Andy9o8 0]

See? You should have posted it in the General Skydiving Forum. This here's the Smartass Forum.

[normiss 620]

is not.

[skyrider 0]

Is too!

[JohnMitchell 14]

Warning . . . Serious Reply.

Thanks for the heads up. I think everyone who's been in the business, or any business, really, has seen people go broke trying to run a DZ (or restaurant or shop or . . . you name it.) Bills go unpaid, creditors get dodged and phone calls are never returned. Now you have to decide how much $$ you're out, and how hard do you want to work to get it. My question would be "Is Myk still running a viable DZ?" Also, how much of this agreement do you have in writing, and did you download the data to see how much the rigs were jumped? Could you have someone in Reno take him to small claims court?

[skyrider 0]

See....Your serious reply got it moved...troublemaker!

[Fast 0]

I have actually had this problem with people leasing our airplane. We would rent our cessna out for demos. In the past we would just go on "verbal" contract via things stated in emails. After a guy stiffed us this year, we had to stop being nice. Everyone signs a contract now no matter what. I mean, most of these people are using like, $100-$200 worth of time/fuel. Didn't seem worth dealing with all the contract nonsense... oh well, it is.

~D
Where troubles melt like lemon drops Away above the chimney tops That's where you'll find me.
Swooping is taking one last poke at the bear before escaping it's cave - davelepka

[JohnRich 4]

Here's another way to consider looking at the problem.

"No good deed goes unpunished". You were a nice guy, but didn't get the money you were hoping for. Let it go. That's life, sometimes. You take your lumps and move on.

And you might consider yourself lucky to have even gotten your rigs back. That's an indication that the guy probably wanted to do the right thing and pay the rental fee, but just can't because he's broke, after his dream failed.

[davelepka 4]

Quote

Everyone signs a contract now no matter what. I mean, most of these people are using like, $100-$200 worth of time/fuel.

This is where a deposit or pre=payment can come in handy. Just enough to cover your costs so if the guy defaults on the contract, you're not out anything out-of-pocket. It will cost you in legal fees to (try to) collect on the contract, but if you haven't actaully suffered a 'loss' it's easier to write off the profits from such a deal than the whole contract after you put fuel in the tank, time on the tach, and paid your pilot.

In the OP's case, I'm sure that before he shipped hsi valuable rigs across the country, there was some discussion of projected usage of the gear. Let's say it was going to equal $100 per rig, per week. In that case, you collect a weeks worth of rentals in advance, $200, before even shipping the gear.

Now, if the guy defaults on the payments, you have an extra weeks worth of time to take action, as you've already been paid. If the usage is lower than expected, it's a benefit to the renter, as he has already paid for what might amount to two weeks worth of rentals, and it gives him a chance to build up some income to be able to actaully pay the bill in the thrid week.

At the end of the contract, the renter simply subtracts the amount of the deposit from the last payment, or the rentor holds the deposit against any damage to the equipment, and returns the balance after the rigs are returned and inspected.

It's an easy to build some security into these types of transactions. Any potential business 'partner' who doesn't want to make a deposit, or cannot make a deposit, isn't going to be a good person to work with. Either they don't have good intentions, or just can't afford the up-front money, and in either case it's adds significant risk to the rentor.

[jtnesbitt 0]

Quote

Here's another way to consider looking at the problem.

"No good deed goes unpunished". You were a nice guy, but didn't get the money you were hoping for. Let it go. That's life, sometimes. You take your lumps and move on.

And you might consider yourself lucky to have even gotten your rigs back. That's an indication that the guy probably wanted to do the right thing and pay the rental fee, but just can't because he's broke, after his dream failed.

That is no way to operate a business, and anyone who operates a business that way won't be operating for very long.

Just because someone is a skydiver doesnt make them a nice person and doesnt mean they wont fuck you.

I currently have a client trying to stiff me on $3k. Even without that money, i still profited on the project. So should I just say Oh well, i should be lucky i made any money on the deal? Fuck that, we had a agreement and it will be upheld as should all agreements in business.

"If this post needs to be moderated I would prefer it to be completly removed and not edited and butchered into a disney movie" - DorkZone Hero

[Southern_Man 0]

Quote

I have actually had this problem with people leasing our airplane. We would rent our cessna out for demos. In the past we would just go on "verbal" contract via things stated in emails. After a guy stiffed us this year, we had to stop being nice. Everyone signs a contract now no matter what. I mean, most of these people are using like, $100-$200 worth of time/fuel. Didn't seem worth dealing with all the contract nonsense... oh well, it is.

If you have e-mails agreeing to and confirming the amounts then that is actionable. Don't know if it is worth your time and energy or not but don't let the fact that there is not a formal contract prohibit you from seeking redress if that is what you wish to do.

"What if there were no hypothetical questions?"

[Fast 0]

Quote

Quote

I have actually had this problem with people leasing our airplane. We would rent our cessna out for demos. In the past we would just go on "verbal" contract via things stated in emails. After a guy stiffed us this year, we had to stop being nice. Everyone signs a contract now no matter what. I mean, most of these people are using like, $100-$200 worth of time/fuel. Didn't seem worth dealing with all the contract nonsense... oh well, it is.

If you have e-mails agreeing to and confirming the amounts then that is actionable. Don't know if it is worth your time and energy or not but don't let the fact that there is not a formal contract prohibit you from seeking redress if that is what you wish to do.

Yeah, I'm aware. In the end the issue was sorted out, but it took a lot more work than being able to point at the contract and say "We agreed to xyz beforehand, that can't be changed after the fact"

~D
Where troubles melt like lemon drops Away above the chimney tops That's where you'll find me.
Swooping is taking one last poke at the bear before escaping it's cave - davelepka

[Para5-0 0]

I am glad you got the tandem rigs back. Could be worse if you didnt. Especially if the company name went bankrupt. Youmight end up on a list of people owed money.

[JohnRich 4]

Quote

That is no way to operate a business...

I currently have a client trying to stiff me on $3k. Even without that money, i still profited on the project. So should I just say Oh well, i should be lucky i made any money on the deal? Fuck that, we had a agreement and it will be upheld as should all agreements in business.

And how much hassle and stress are you willing to inject into your life in order to recover that $3k? Hire a lawyer? Wait years while a lawsuit wends its way through the courts?

I'm not saying you shouldn't try to collect. You absolutely should.

But at some point in the process, is the aggravation and stress really worth it for relatively small amounts of money?

[psychoswooper 2]

Quote

I am glad you got the tandem rigs back. Could be worse if you didnt. Especially if the company name went bankrupt. Youmight end up on a list of people owed money.

Haha, yeah, glad I dodged that bullet. And he didn't end up on a list of missing persons
The amount of $$ is relatively small, it's the principle of the thing that bugs me. I was taught that your word is the the only thing of real value that you have.

[jtnesbitt 0]

I must have misunderstood what you were saying John. I thought you were saying there is no point in going after it and he should be lucky he didnt get fucked harder. Now I see what you are saying.

Fortunately I actually got my $3k from the client last night. I literally called his cell between 40-50 times in a row (just kept hitting redial) and eventually he picked up. After threatening to sue him personally and his company for the balance owed as well as damages as well as report him to the FCC and FTC he made a direct deposit into the company's bank account.

"If this post needs to be moderated I would prefer it to be completly removed and not edited and butchered into a disney movie" - DorkZone Hero

[JohnRich 4]

Quote

Fortunately I actually got my $3k from the client last night. I literally called his cell between 40-50 times in a row (just kept hitting redial) and eventually he picked up. After threatening to sue him personally and his company for the balance owed as well as damages as well as report him to the FCC and FTC he made a direct deposit into the company's bank account.

Congrats on your recovery. That's the same kind of principle I spoke of, in reverse. You made it clear to him that his life was going to be miserable unless he paid up, and it was worth it to him to pay $3k to avoid the stress and aggravation of having you hound him.

I had a guy once buy a used refrigerator from me for $300. He claimed he didn't have enough cash right then, and I agreed to accept $150, and let him pay the remainder in two weeks. Of course, he never returned to pay the remainder. I tracked him down and found he ran a store-front dry-cleaning business. So I started showing up at 5:30 pm every day on my way home from work, asking for my $150. He would claim he didn't have it. I pointed out that customer money has been going into his register all day, and when the drawer was open, I saw plenty more than $150. Customers in line behind me started wondering about the proprietor. After about the third day of showing up like this, putting on a display for his customers, he pulled out $150 and paid me. Case closed.

[Throttlebender 0]

Joe, you're really sexy when you get assertive. Grrrrr!!!


Glad you got your money.

Life expands or contracts in proportion to one's courage. ~Anais Nin