Max Safe Exit Weight

[Imanewdiver 0]

Mr Chapman - thank you for the comments. The rig is a new one with every option for a bigger guy possible. So the condition should be fine. I stayed away from any items that were "cool" in lieu of what was strong. All the hours in the tunnel were belly or back so that I was stable and slow as I could go. My suit has a camera wing to further slow things down including booties that inflate. I appreciate your note and thanks, as a paramedic safety is my foremost thoughts.

[Imanewdiver 0]

The condition of the equipment is new, and the suit that I am tunnel flying has a small with, and a larger wing (camera wing) for the AFF. I have about 100 jumps with a round chute from the 78 but as someone pointed out the new ram airs require much more understanding and work. I agree. You are correct in the fact that if knocked out or hurt having my Cypress open the reserve at terminal would be fast and hard. Mark said it best, dont hurt myself or endanger others. BACK TO WEIGHT WATCHERS. Crap Jumping naked saves me 15 lbs but god who wants to see that one eh???

[Imanewdiver 0]

Thanks all for the advise. I have to do some more homework, and weight watchers before I can move forward. Will check with my manufactures for TSO limits. and keep my tunnel work up in case I really can get my AFF in this year. Thanks again all.

[Anvilbrother 0]

As advised above a paraflite MC4 in good condition would be perfect for you. Its rated for 360 lbs. The rig weighs 47lbs with FXC AAD. That leaves you with 313 lbs for you and anything your put on your body. I am figuring it on the max 360 which should be avoided but even at that you will be at a 1:1 ratio.

If you find one and the main which is f111 is wore out anyone know what might fit in that system as a sport replacement? I called paraflite and a few other MFG and noone could give me the pack volume for the MT1-xx canopy. If you knew that you could get a new f111 or even better ZP.

Its big and heavy, but they can be found cheap, they are tried and tested in the military, and it will hold your weight. Take my advice with a grain of salt and add an instructor before you do ANYTHING. later

Postes r made from an iPad or iPhone. Spelling and gramhair mistakes guaranteed move along,

[Imanewdiver 0]

OK Ok Do you know what its like at a weight watchers meeting.......... Paid my money and counting my food. Gotta be safe, wish me luck.

[Joellercoaster 6]

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I would love to know if any 250 Lb jumpers experiance broken lines, risers, and containers due to there size.

I know one very large gentleman (OK I know several, but this one hurt himself).

I don't know the make of container he was jumping but it was modern, the main was a Crossfire2 169. They're known for opening softly but nothing is guaranteed; he broke a riser with a hard opening and was out of jumping for several months.

I know another very big guy who broke lines, I don't think he was hurt though.

It sounds like you're going about this in a careful way, I hope you find gear that works for you - this is just more information.

Good luck, keep us posted!

--
"I'll tell you how all skydivers are judged, . They are judged by the laws of physics." - kkeenan

"You jump out, pull the string and either live or die. What's there to be good at?

[humanflite 0]

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OK Ok Do you know what its like at a weight watchers meeting.......... Paid my money and counting my food. Gotta be safe, wish me luck.

Also, I dont know of many (any?) AFF instructors that will let a new student jump a camera suit with wings..
that adds just one extra element of risk to the skydive.

A friend of mine with several thousand jumps managed to dump his pilot chute through a camera wing and ended up with a nasty malfunction.
His experience and some luck saved his ass but it could easily have been much worse.

Stick with weight watchers and if you want this bad enough you iwll lose a couple of stone good luck

[davelepka 4]

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A friend of mine with several thousand jumps managed to dump his pilot chute through a camera wing and ended up with a nasty malfunction

That would be on a suit with a full wing where the bottom hooks ot your leg, close to the PC. The suit the OP is using is a small wing, which doesn't go beyond the 'armpit' area, and uses no swoop cords to maintain wing tension, so PC or other entanglement problems are not a factor.

Additonally, he has logged 7 hours in the tunnel with that suit and his AFF instructor prior to jumping.

[humanflite 0]

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A friend of mine with several thousand jumps managed to dump his pilot chute through a camera wing and ended up with a nasty malfunction

That would be on a suit with a full wing where the bottom hooks ot your leg, close to the PC. The suit the OP is using is a small wing, which doesn't go beyond the 'armpit' area, and uses no swoop cords to maintain wing tension, so PC or other entanglement problems are not a factor.

Additonally, he has logged 7 hours in the tunnel with that suit and his AFF instructor prior to jumping.

Ah
ok, thanks for clarifying this Dave

[BlindBrick 0]

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LIMITED TO USE IN AIRPLANE UNDER 150 MPH

This gets us into the gray area. IMO you could use it in an airplane that does not go over 150 MPH but you could exceed that as a freefall speed.

Now, I would not recommend doing so.

This is a real problem for the 'larger' folks but it is not something to be taken trivially. A harness failure will almost always result in death.

Even without rings, a Mirage harness is grossly over-engineerred. I've got a Mirage that has sustained 100+ high speed openings (~144 mph to 207 mph w/ average of ~168 mph) while supporting 350+ lbs of exit weight. The harness is fine.

The only issue I've ever had with it was the stiching on a riser after a deployment during during high speed horizontal flight in a wingsuit, and there's slider issue with that type of deployment that result in higher opening forces than those seen in belly or freefly.

-Blind

"If you end up in an alligator's jaws, naked, you probably did something to deserve it."

[FFMedic 0]

@imanewdiver, I believe my son has contacted you and I thought I'd just let you know how I managed. First I am no expert and offer no advice. This is just what I did. Having my son, a military FF instructor ( also an AFFI and a tandem instructor), and his colleagues expert knowledge was the key to my getting started. My first 17 jumps through AFF were in a military MC4. Pretty big rig and a nice one to land. But I couldn't take the rough treatment it handed me on opening sometimes and had my son order me the Wings rig custom fit to me.

I am 6'5" and 260# so my exit weight is 300+/-. I now jump with a Navigator 280 and a PD 281 reserve. My last 41 jumps have been on this. My son checked with the manufacturer as I had some of the same questions. I used to really fall fast until I got a new suit with winglets (body sport) that has slowed me from as much as 160 to 120-130 avg. I flat pack ( its a bit big and its the military way so how I was taught) and I roll my nose pretty tight so I get a real nice slow opening. I have only once had a hard opening and that was trying a new way to pack it. I do have at least a 1000 ft snivel or more, but I continue to love opening high as the canopy flight is more than half the fun for me.

As has been mentioned my landings were the biggest challenge. The MC4 was a real teddy bear and I started right out landing softly and standing up. The new rig brought me in a bit faster and I have only gotten real comfortable with it in the last 15 jumps. No wind landings were tough but I stood it up in 10 knot winds fine. Now I am nailing my no wind landings 95% of the time but have never had a significantly bad landing in any event. I have about 1 1/2 hrs tunnel time.

I am moving toward losing 40# where I feel much better and by then I'll probably even feel like downsizing just a little. I had great instructors who were more critical of my flying like a sheet of plywood then my weight or size ( at this height most people don't even look at me as overweight). I am glad I stuck with it as I am progressing every jump. I have my "B" now and will be in a wing suit right next to my son some day. I only wish I hadn't waited until much older than you to start.

BTW, I understand you might know a bit about my work.

[Imanewdiver 0]

Hi, and yes your son and I had several privt chats. I am trying to cover all the bases, the tunnel time (8hr), small wing (winglet) about half a typical camera wing that I fly in the tunnel, and yes now weight watchers. my navigator, pd reserve and mirage g4 are new and so the shape should be fine. I am hoping to get 10 to 15 lbs more down (got 5 since I started) before my jumping (equipment done next month). Hate to be up against the max so i will work on the weight. Greatly apprecite your note and cant wait for this day to come. THANK YOU!

[Imanewdiver 0]

Wow, found out at weight watchers that some people only eat 3 meals a day, with out a burger king or mc donalds stop in between. Down 9 lbs, lots of water, lots of treadmill time. On my way.

[billvon 2,394]

>found out at weight watchers that some people only eat 3 meals a
>day, with out a burger king or mc donalds stop in between.

Heck, on a training day, sometimes you only have time for two meals!

[Imanewdiver 0]

Hi all, I just wanted to end this thread on a positive note. I listened to all comments and followed Mr TK Hayes words of wisdom. Why put anyone in danger regarding weight. I dropped my weight down to 252 Lbs, put another hour in the tunnel in, and made my AFF jumps all with in the legal weight limits of my gear. My PD 281 R & 280 Nav main, and Mirage G4 worked fine. Got through my AFF program quickly due to all the tunnel time I accumulated (about 7 hrs), new gear, and a great coach. I got a total of 10 jumps in and had a blast. Couple of interesting landings (early flare and late flare) but for the most part easy landings. Thank you all for your encouragement. Here is a video of jump 8 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UOmPocA9ltk&feature=related)

Plans are now to complete my A with my coach, take some more packing classes with the great packers I met at the DZ, and learn as much as I can about the sport. I am fortunate enough to be able to hire great coaches to teach me the correct way to play. I will never stop tunnel time as its a GREAT way to practice. Dream now is my 200th jump and a wing suit class... Thank you all for your contributions to my thread.

[tkhayes 125]

glad it worked out for you (yaaay!!) - we just finished 'tightening up' our weight restrictions for tandems and I find myself saying no to more and more people as I get older and (sometimes) wiser.

It can be done, people can lose weight. Once you have a license and have those accomplishments, you can get as fat as you want, even I live with that and struggle to keep it down, but if I as a first jump student today, I doubt I would be able to learn to skydive.

[Imanewdiver 0]

Even at this legal weight the landings can be interesting. Sticking with weight watchers and my new goal is 23 more pounds down. Simply feel better with more energy. So next post at -23 lbs or my 200 jump and a video of wingsuit class. Thanks TK for making it simple. I appreciate your advise.

[fencebuster 7]

I am a big guy -- 242 lbs. I had a very hard opening on a Stiletto 190 after I changed packers at a boogie. Broke several lines and ripped the outboard cell. Really got my attention, a little whiplash, etc. Cut away and a decent landing on my Reserve. Lost the main, which convinced me to keep my Sabre2 260 as my primary canopy. I also had an unstable opening on my C1 when I was a student and the high speed deployment blew up the canopy (a 300) requiring a cut-away. Stick with it. I am an AFFI and TI and feel your pain. I am working out again to take off about 15# which will both slow me down in FF and give me a little more safety margin. Good luck with your skydiving.

Charlie Gittins, 540-327-2208
AFF-I, Sigma TI, IAD-I
MEI, CFI-I, Senior Rigger
Former DZO, Blue Ridge Skydiving Adventures

[mjosparky 3]

TSO-C23b calls for a test weight and speed that will equal 3000 shock load for “low speed’ and 5000 lb. for “standard” category. These numbers can vary from manufacture to manufacture.
Attached is a page from NAS-804, the standards that in TSO-C23b.

Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[alisontin 0]

Thanks all for the tips and advises that given here. I really appreciated it.

[Rugby82 0]

I'm a pretty big guy too weighing 255 lbs. with my gear. Never had any problems with my gear.

I jumped a electra 190 (WL at 1.3) for 350 jumps and never had any problems while the label said max 200 lbs.. I've also jumped a Sabre2 -190 (WL at nearly 1.5), a Safire2 - 139 (WL nearly 1.8) and a Crossfire2 - 139. Never had any problems while I did have a couple of really hard openings on my Sabre2 after Freefly-jumps and when jumping in shorts and a t-shirt.

Having more weight can be a good thing because you're more connected to the canopy. You're flying the canopy and not the other way around (Ever seen the little girls land on high wind days day loaded at 0.6-0.8, that isn't fun).

The only problem with the extra weight are the first few jumps where you don't know when to flare but once you get through this, in my opinion, having some more weight is positive.

I'm not saying that you should hang 350-400 lbs on a student canopy but with you're weight you shouldn't have a problem. Just take a canopy that opens soft and you'll be allright.

Blue skies!

[popsjumper 2]

Where were you jumping back in the 70s?

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[jf951 1]

1. nice job on doing your hw and having a solid head on ur shoulders about this.

2. its pretty involved but i heard about a guy in Socal who modified a tandem rig into a sport rig, but from what i gathered he was BIG.

Jump more, Bitch less.

[alisontin 0]

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Thanks all for the tips and advises that given here. I really appreciated it.

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[BlindBrick 0]

Jerry and Derek, Jeff once provided me with the droptest data for Mirages and based off human physiology, I believe that the jumper wearing the rig is going to suffer catastrophic strucutral failure before the rig does.

From the experience of myself and others; with XXL-sized jumpers the materials issue is going to manifest itself north of the three ring. That is why I jump a main with an oversized slider and tandem vectran lines connected to type 8's via reserve slinks.

-Blind

"If you end up in an alligator's jaws, naked, you probably did something to deserve it."