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diver360

Am I being "out of line"?

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Hey to all!!

So, my name is Mike and I just got my A license =) Currently I am looking for a rig and have run across an issue.

My local DZO told me I should have any used equipment shipped to them so they can inspect it and so I can look at it and make sure thats what I want. The rig I found is on the opposite side of the country. I told they guy who owns the rig that I would send a money order to HIS DZO and he ships my DZO the rig. If the rig is everything he said it is and all checks out, I'd call his DZO and tell him to release the money order. Once he recieves the money order, he can call my DZO to release the rig to me. My DZO has agreed to take full responsibility of the rig until the seller recieves payment. The seller is refusing to agree to this and I just want to make sure I am not being out or line. Is it normal for people to refuse someone to see the rig before buying it?! I dont know this person at all and he doesnt know me. Thats why using listed DZO's as middle men seems like a good idea....so am I being out of line?! Thanks!
-From the heights of the sky to the depths of the ocean-

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No you're NOT out of line. It's called escrow and it's quite common and a highly recommended way of doing business.

The only thing I would do different is have 1 person as the escrow agent instead of two.

Generally (agreed beforehand) seller pays the ship-to, buyer pays the return-ship if not purchased after an agreed amount of time.
My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

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Wow, thanks everyone! Didnt expect to have this many responses already.

I have not contacted his DZO. I dont see the point it in if he isnt interested in doing that way. He said no b/c his DZ is the best in the world and I should trust them. I told him its not that I dont trust them, but if I'm going to spend this amount of cash I would expect to be able to personally inspect and try on the rig to make sure its what I want. I couldnt screw him over...I'd send a money order to his DZO to hold.

Anyhow, I have already "moved on". I just wanted to know if I was being "out of line" as a future reference. :)

-From the heights of the sky to the depths of the ocean-

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Quote

I just wanted to know if I was being "out of line" as a future reference



Not in the least. Buying an item in that price range, and for the intended purpose, sight unseen is taking a big risk. Anytthing from unseen (by a non-rigger) damage, to mandatory recalls, to just plain shitty gear, there are many ways to lose out even if the seller ships the rig as promised.

Some alternate thoughts -

-In some cases the seller is from the best DZ in the world, or has the best rigger on earth, AND your DZO, rigger or instructor knows that DZO or rigger well enough to accept their word that the gear is sound and the seller is honest. This is, of course, after your representative calls and speaks to the other DZO or rigger in person.

-There are some 'thrid party' escrow services out there (Chuting Star, for one). This way neither party is sending gear or money to someone connected to the deal. It's going to a reputable businessman with no interest in stealing anything or bad publicity. You'll pay twice for shipping (once to the escrow and once to the buyer) and also have to pay to have the gear inspected by the escrow services rigger. Some places charge for the escrow, some are just happy to get paid for the inspection. The costs are generally split between buyer and seller.

-Last, and this is better when buying individual components (harness, main, reserve), you can ship gear back to the manufacturer for an inspection. Have the seller ship it, and explain in an email that this is being inspected in consideration of purcahse by you (the buyer). You pay for the inspection (generally by credit card), and this gets your name officailly into the transaction. Once the inspection is complete, and you see the report, you can send the money to the seller, and once they have it, they will instruct the manufacturer to ship the item to you.

Not a perfect solution, however, it's unlikely that a seller who is trying to scam you would ship a quality peice of equipment to the manufacturer (remember, it has to pass inspection before you send the funds), inform them another person is invovled, and then have the manufacturer return the item to them once they are paid. There are other parties involved, lots of documentation, and a lot of effort for a scammer, not to mention it's in the neighborhood of interstate mail fraud, which I think is a felony.

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As with what everyone else has already said, your not being out of line. Your well within the standard of trying to make a deal, a good/honest deal for everyone involved.

Sometimes the "checking out the rig" needs to be clarified though for everyone's sake. When checking out the rig, does that just include the obvious outside, straps, hardware, opening up the main for an inspect, etc. I think what some sellers are concerned with is that the reserve will be opened up for inspection as well, as it should be honestly.

And, that if the reserve is in fact in date, and you choose not to buy, you should in all fairness have agreed to purchase a repack from the sellers rigger. It's just fair, and if you do decide to purchase, you would want a fresh repack as well.

Just my .02.

Good luck.
So, you bring your beer?

Its 5 o'clock somewhere
POPS #9344

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If the seller is confident he can get someone to buy it without needing to see it first, then they will want to do that. If it is a good deal, then there is probably someone that is willing to do that.
People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

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Out of line? Heck no

I think it's a great idea.

If this seller is reasonable and legitimate, he’d agree to your request. I think you just kept yourself from getting ripped off. Lot’s of people are getting scammed of these internet transactions. You made a smart choice. :)

Cause they know, and so do I, The high road is hard to find
A detour to your new life, Tell all of your friends goodbye

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You are not out of line and IMO the seller is not out of line either. You and he can do what your comfortable with. Like someone said in this thread, if you really want it then ask for hi res pics and even the contact info of the rigger who packs and maintains said rig. Or, you can move on.

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Not out of line. I've acted as the 'escrow' agent and have sold a rig using another rigger as the escrow agent.

Rather than random DZO's I'd suggest choosing someone like Chuting Star. As Chairman of the PIA rigging committee a lot of people know me, and a buyer and I used A USPA employee, Jim Crouch.

Many others willing to do this, and the inspection. There is a fee for the inspection and shipping fees. All of the costs for shipping, including return if you don't want it, inspections, responsibility for damage, and whether test jumps are allowed and what happens if damaged then should be agreed upon by both parties.

Someone wanting to sell a rig without a local market should be willing to do this. If they think they can sell it local, not so much.
I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

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When I was selling a canopy, I called the buyer's DZO to verify that they were qualified, and shipped the canopy to the (well known) DZO so that they could inspect it. Once they checked it out, the buyer sent me a check.

I wasn't totally happy with this, and would have preferred to deal in person. However, I was willing to trust a DZO whose name I knew and who has a good reputation. I would understand if another seller did not want to do that.

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