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questions about cutaways

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I m new to the sport and still have alot of ?. I've notice several messages with people having their first cutaway under 30 jumps. Several of the instr. at the DZ have 400-800 jumps, some with no cutaways. Going to reseve is my biggest fear. I've already exp. line twist and an end cell not inflating all the way, (didn t seem big deal). I guess my ? is if I take my time and pack properly, shouldn t this eliminate bad openings as well as stabile body postion. Is there a conection between these cutaways and rental gear. Any advice to help calm beginner nerves would be helpful.

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Going to reseve is my biggest fear.



It shouldn't be. What is it about going to your reserve that scares you? Are you afraid that you won't do your EP's correctly? Are you afraid it won't work? Are you afraid of jumping a different canopy?

There are a lot of factors that can impact the likelihood of a reserve ride, but the fact is that you can try to do everything perfectly and may still find yourself in a situation where you need to use your reserve. What can you do to alleviate your stress/fear about using your reserve? Maybe it's practicing your EPs more. Maybe it's getting in a hanging harness and seeing what it really feels like to pull a reserve. Maybe it's reviewing malfunction scenarios (photos, videos) and discussing how you'd address them. Maybe it's watching a rigger pack a reserve so that you have a better understanding of how they work.
"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

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Sometimes it's the fear of the thing that is worse than the thing itself.

If you continue in this sport, odds are you will have a cutaway. You can reduce your odds by packing carefully, focusing heavily on your body position at deployment, pulling high (you'll have more time to deal with things), and playing safe (don't put on a GoPro because of the entanglement risk, don't put on a wingsuit because it can make you prone to line twists on deployment, etc.)

Having said that, the great likelihood is that you will nevertheless have one at some point in your skydiving career, if you stay in this sport for any length of time. So while I think packing safely, pulling high and being careful about your body position are all great ideas, you're still taking a risk. That's part of this sport, regardless of what we might hope.

I generally feel that knowledge can help us deal with fear. My suggestion to you would be to find a good rigger and spend time with him while he packs your (or someone else's) reserve. Ask questions and learn how it all works. Understand how the cutaway system works, what role the RSL really does (and doesn't) play, how the reserve is deployed and why (in the sense of "why is it in a free bag and not a deployment bag?", "why is it spring loaded?", etc.), and how reserve characteristics tend to be a little different than mains. Do your EPs "live" but on the ground (not hanging harness - find a reserve that is out of date, bring it to that rigger I mentioned, and do your EPs).

I've had a disproportionate number of reserve rides (7) given my jump numbers. All but one were the result of wingsuit deployment problems (the other one was a camera entanglement). I used to fear them too, but now I'm ever so pleased when a misbehaving main disappears off my risers and my shiny neon yellow bestest friend line stretches over my head. I personally feel that my confidence in skydiving improved significantly once I had my first cutaway (I knew I could deal with bad stuff when it arose).

Good luck.
Skwrl Productions - Wingsuit Photography

Northeast Bird School - Chief Logistics Guy and Video Dork

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You can prevent a lot of problems with good body position on opening, good gear maintenance, good packing, jumping a lower performance canopy, and not doing stuff with gear that isn't made for it. But still, s*** happens, you can do everything right and still have a malfunction. This could happen on your next jump.

Why are you afraid of going for your reserve? It's really quite simple: if you do not have a canopy you want to land by 2000ft (or whatever the harddeck is you were taught, should be close to this), you go for plan B.

On average, this seems to happen once every 700 jumps or so, for regular sport jumpers. I'm a bit above average, myself :$

If you're not comfy with the idea, better work on that, as you should be when jumping. As the post above says, please work on whatever part of this is bothering you.


ciel bleu,
Saskia

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There are plenty of things that you can do to reduce your risk and odds of having a function, but if you stay in this sport it is not a question of if you will have to go to your reserve, but when.

Practice your emergency procedures. Go over in your mind over and over again what you would do in a given "oh shit" situation. Hell, when I do my dirt dive in my mind in the plane, I always do at least one that includes a function and cutaway. Plan for it, be ready for it, and when it does happen... I think you will find it is no big deal.

My first ride was at 700 jumps, and I was almost let down afterwards. "That was it?" It was so matter of fact and so automatic that it wasn't scary at all. I opened, looked up...saw I didn't have a square stable and steerable canopy, went through my emergency procedures and had a pretty white canopy above my head before I knew it or had time to be afraid.

Trust your gear and your training, and don't worry about it!

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The best thing ever to alleviate all of your reserve ride fears is to do an intentional cutaway. Of course you have to have access to the equipment to do this but it would be well worth the effort to find someone that offers this experience. UPT has a guy that travels to boogies and for the cost of a repack you can demo the skyhook and a PD reserve on a tertiary rig.
There is nothing that will compare to that other than a for real cutaway.
Otherwise just treat every single jump as one that will be a reserve ride and put your faith into your gear.

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Actually, you're a little less likely to have a cutaway on rental gear than on a highly elliptical Swwooop-Magic Tornado loaded at 2.2 : 1 that the experienced jumpers are using, because rental gear is usually more docile.
If I was giving you advice, which I'm not, I'd say get in the training harness and practice emergency procedures some more to gain more confidence that you'll react properly if you do have a problem.
You don't have to outrun the bear.

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i dont think it is the rental gear. i jumped rental gear for at least 50 jumps and only got a few line twists, which happened to be my fault (first time i jumped in shorts and was turning a little while deployment).

i haven't experienced a cutaway, but i trust the people who trained me, i trust my rigger who packed my reserve, and i trust myself to perform ep's correctly. if i have to go to reserve, well that's what it is made for.;)

"Never grow a wishbone, where your backbone ought to be."

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Perhaps, being very new to skydiving, you're still concerned about, "what if the reserve doesn't open; it's my last chance?" The answer to that is that the risk of an unsurvivable main malfunction, cutaway, followed by an unsurvivable reserve malfunction, while not impossible, is so exceedingly low as to be almost (almost) negligible.

Reserves are designed, manufactured and packed by certified riggers to be very, very, reliable.

Despite the typical (read: inaccurate) verbiage in newspaper stories about skydiving accidents ("both parachutes failed..." :S , most deaths and serious injuries are caused (or greatly contributed to) by pilot error, not by unrecoverable double-malfunctions of equipment unrelated to pilot error.

This, you see, answers one typical question asked by many non-skydivers: "Why not jump a third parachute as an extra fail-safe?" Civilian freefall skydiving has existed for over 50 years now; and equipment (as well as knowledge) over that time has become very sophisticated. If the risk of a fatal double malfunction was a great enough that a 3rd parachute really would make a realistic difference, people would be jumping 3 parachutes. But we don't. Believe me, that speaks volumes.

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People get weird about reserves. They hesitate to use them, get doubts about buying a used one that has actually been deployed, etc.

Think of it as your most reliable and robust canopy, not some tempermental fragile thing that is just as likely to kill you as save you.

I've had two cutaways in 42 years of jumping. One in the early 70s on Capewells and one on a modern rig in 2005.

On my last one I thought to myself: "Damn, I've got a bad canopy, now I will use my good canopy."

With an RSL you will have a good canopy fast after a cutaway and with a Skyhook, even faster. Don't be afraid to cutaway. If you need to do it then do it right away. Trying to fix an uncontrollable main eats up precious altitude. You can get below your hard deck a lot faster than you think if your main is spinning.

I found doing practice cutaways in a suspended harness was really good training. When it was time to do a real one it seemed like I was programmed. It was almost automatic.

Hope you never have to do a cutaway, but if you do, don't hesitate.

377
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

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When you were taught to jump you were given the reasons to use your reserve.
Practice your emergency procedures endlessly, until they bore you. Practice them physically to build muscle memory. Practice them mentally to get use to the idea. Practice before every jump. Practice in the plane.
Practice under canopy, carefully. Practice until you get to the point the check out clerk at the grocery store tell you your "total" for groceries and you reach for your reserve. Practice until you hear of a car "spinning" and you go for your cut away handle. Practice until you wipe your butt and the toilet paper fails and you reach for your handles.
U only make 2 jumps: the first one for some weird reason and the last one that you lived through. The rest are just filler.
scr 316

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I had my first cutaway on my second AFF (CAT C-1) due to trouble finding my hackey at deployment time. Hard opening; broken steering lines. Bad scene, but the training kicked in. Not square, not controllable, not landable = cutaway. I kept trying to convince myself i didn't need to cut away until 3500 and then I told myself to "man up" and you will make the decision by 3000 feet. One last controllability and landability try told me it was cutaway time and I did it -- just like I was taught. I had two more in the next 100 jumps and the first one taught me to trust the gear and my rigger; don't fight a malfunction. Cut it and debrief. I have 4 cutaways and one reserve ride (couldn't reach my hackey on a small rig) and I totally trust my gear. Malfunction -- EPs and cutaway if required. Period.
Charlie Gittins, 540-327-2208
AFF-I, Sigma TI, IAD-I
MEI, CFI-I, Senior Rigger
Former DZO, Blue Ridge Skydiving Adventures

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Oh yeah. By the way, I am the guy who puts our students through the hanging harness every day before jump ops. Shitty job, but I appreciate the training I received and how important it was to my survival on my CAT C-1. I am trying to make sure everybody is as confident as I was the day I needed to cut away.
Charlie Gittins, 540-327-2208
AFF-I, Sigma TI, IAD-I
MEI, CFI-I, Senior Rigger
Former DZO, Blue Ridge Skydiving Adventures

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I m new to the sport and still have alot of ?. I've notice several messages with people having their first cutaway under 30 jumps. Several of the instr. at the DZ have 400-800 jumps, some with no cutaways. Going to reseve is my biggest fear. I've already exp. line twist and an end cell not inflating all the way, (didn t seem big deal). I guess my ? is if I take my time and pack properly, shouldn t this eliminate bad openings as well as stabile body postion. Is there a conection between these cutaways and rental gear. Any advice to help calm beginner nerves would be helpful.



Don't pack like you type.

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Hi,
You don't say how many jumps you have so far. We're both on the same end of the playing field, though. I'm posting this, as a fellow Newb, in the hope that it will help you. My first few jumps. I was terrified that I might have to cut away. In fact, I was pretty terrified of the whole experience. I could only get in a couple of jumps a weekend. So, I struggled to get even a little comfortable. Then, I was on my fifteenth jump. The weather had been bad for the previous couple of weekends. I just wanted a nice & peaceful plunge to get back into it. Sure enough... A line(s)-over changed that. There I was. Swirling the bowl @about 5K'. I tried pulling on the risers to no avail. It was starting to spin worse. I remember laughing to myself "SOB, I'm gonna have to cut this *****'n thing." The point being I was laughing. Had that happened on one of my first jumps. I think my heart would have literally stopped. I tried one last thing, & that cleared it. A part of me was disappointed that I wouldn't have to chop it. What changed? I was becoming more & more familiar w/the equipment. I was also becoming more confident in myself & the equipment. I too, am trying to do everything extra carefully. So do many people here. As a lot of them have already said: "Poo Happens..." I liked the suggestions for you to practice w/a hanging harness, again. You can go through EPs even without a harness. Muscle memory & EP drills are viable concepts that work. How many times have you seen or read a debrief (military, police, etc...) where "My training kicked in" was said? Practice as much as you need to. If your lucky day comes before you can laugh @it? Your training will kick in.

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Going to reseve is my biggest fear. I've already exp. line twist and an end cell not inflating all the way, (didn t seem big deal).

A couple of things. You're absolutely right that line twists and closed end cells are not a big deal, esp. on the more docile, lightly loaded novice canopies. Sounds like you have your head on straight about that.

I don't know if it was my biggest fear, but I, and other jumpers I knew, had small, nagging doubts about having to cut away and use our reserves. Could we, would we really do it correctly? No normal person would really want their main to malfunction. To have some apprehension about it is not abnormal. Don't worry about feeling that way. I had my first cutaway somewhere around 90 jumps. I remember laughing under my reserve at how easy it had been, when the time really came, to release my streamered main and pull my reserve. The act was much easier than the anticipation.

So take JackWallace's advice and practice and drill your EP's until you're bored with them. Try teaching them to your whuffo friends, or the mirror, if you really want to master them. When the malfuction actually happens, it'll seem as if your hands have a mind of their own, and you'll be under that reserve before you know it. I couldn't not pull my reserve if I tried.;):D

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Sometimes it's the fear of the thing that is worse than the thing itself.

If you continue in this sport, odds are you will have a cutaway. You can reduce your odds by packing carefully, focusing heavily on your body position at deployment, pulling high (you'll have more time to deal with things), and playing safe (don't put on a GoPro because of the entanglement risk, don't put on a wingsuit because it can make you prone to line twists on deployment, etc.)

Having said that, the great likelihood is that you will nevertheless have one at some point in your skydiving career, if you stay in this sport for any length of time. So while I think packing safely, pulling high and being careful about your body position are all great ideas, you're still taking a risk. That's part of this sport, regardless of what we might hope.

I generally feel that knowledge can help us deal with fear. My suggestion to you would be to find a good rigger and spend time with him while he packs your (or someone else's) reserve. Ask questions and learn how it all works. Understand how the cutaway system works, what role the RSL really does (and doesn't) play, how the reserve is deployed and why (in the sense of "why is it in a free bag and not a deployment bag?", "why is it spring loaded?", etc.), and how reserve characteristics tend to be a little different than mains. Do your EPs "live" but on the ground (not hanging harness - find a reserve that is out of date, bring it to that rigger I mentioned, and do your EPs).

I've had a disproportionate number of reserve rides (7) given my jump numbers. All but one were the result of wingsuit deployment problems (the other one was a camera entanglement). I used to fear them too, but now I'm ever so pleased when a misbehaving main disappears off my risers and my shiny neon yellow bestest friend line stretches over my head. I personally feel that my confidence in skydiving improved significantly once I had my first cutaway (I knew I could deal with bad stuff when it arose).

Good luck.



ACK...NEVER pull high, Unless you are manifested to pull high,and everyone knows it! Nothing liek a newbie under canopy heading back the the LZ at 45 hundred, when everyone else is still in freefall..:o

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Personally I think that in my situation there has been a correlation between problems/cutaways, and rental gear, but not in a straightforward way.. if you are using the same or similar rental rig each time, I don't think that makes it more likely to have issues, and especially if you learn to pack yourself and do/get gear checks, with a focus on important components like correctly stowing the lines, correctly folding/stowing the pilot chute, pin checks, etc. it's less likely that you'll have an issue (but as others have said, you do have to accept that it is part of the sport and get comfortable).

That said, silly things can completely throw you off when you are constantly switching gear. I think my progression went (#/times on each student and rental canopy) 4-1-3-3-18-1(first cutaway jump 31 and A license)-4-2-3-1-5. Now I just got my own gear this past weekend (haven't jumped it yet, but it is of the style I am familiar with, as far as the type of rig I have jumped and packed the most.)

Basically I don't think it is a rental gear issue in that it is poorly maintained or anything like that (though you should check over any unfamiliar gear to make sure!), I think it is a twofold issue of gear familiarity not being great with new-to-you rigs and canopies, and the issue that oftentimes, renting gear coincides with less experience, so one might cutaway something that an experienced jumper feels they can fix, and you have a higher hard deck by which to fix it.

For example, unstowing your brakes- if you pull down on certain kinds of toggle keepers ("pin" stow toggles? I don't know the correct name) like you do with student velcro toggles they get even further seated instead of coming out (lesson learned :) you have to pull them backwards not downwards).
--If you pay a packer and then your pilot chute doesn't come out easily because they have packed it differently than you, or because you are on new-to-you rental gear and the BOC is tighter or different type of material, you may wind up with a reserve ride.
--If you are transitioning from a student gear to transition gear or rental gear collapsible pilot chute, and you don't cock your PC, you can have a PC in tow (scary stuff B|).
--If you are jumping a collapsible slider and forget to uncollapse it, you can have a hard opening (which sucks, but can also break lines, damage canopies, etc. and result in issues).

See the theme? (No, I haven't really screwed up in ALL those ways, hehe, just more examples to think about)

Like I said, it's a gear familiarity thing as well as a comfort and experience thing IMO. So for me renting gear has had its issues, but it was mainly an issue of familiarity and my experience being low, NOT the gear not being properly maintained or anything like that.

Each time you are on a new rig, take the time to look at it, take the time to learn to pack for yourself (and then do it every time!) and learn what to look for, take the time to talk to the riggers or rental staff about features of a new type of rig, etc. and as others have given suggestions, practice mentally and physically and try to get more comfortable with the process.

My first cutaway was indeed fairly early, not as early as your post but one jump after I reached 30 so very close to that range, and I was aware of what happened and why and what altitudes I was at, and was surprised how automatic it was to integrate all that info. So while one really has a long ways to go with those jump numbers, EPs are something one should actually be very capable of very early on, because you never know when one is coming-- it's not really something you can count on putting off for a few hundred jumps :P It's good to try to avoid issues and there are things you can do, but you really cannot completely predict or prevent it.

Note- I'm a newbie too, just sharing my experiences so take it for what it's worth lol.

"You must be the change you wish to see in the world." Gandhi

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One of my mates has more than 25 reserve rides....some of those were possibly not necessary, but he doesn't muck around if he has a problem...he trusts his reserve and EP's.

We suggested he apply for a new "A" license for reserve rides only.....(He's got more than 8000 jumps logged).
My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

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One of my mates has more than 25 reserve rides....some of those were possibly not necessary, but he doesn't muck around if he has a problem...he trusts his reserve and EP's.

We suggested he apply for a new "A" license for reserve rides only.....(He's got more than 8000 jumps logged).



Maybe he shoudl stop Mucking around with his Mains...Or get a new packer! Even for a tandem amster, that is pretty up there!

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"No normal person would really want their main to malfunction."

This reminds me of something I was taught @ a motorcycle roadracing school a long time ago. The highly respected instructor said "If you're gonna race M/Cs. You have to be willing to fall off. You don't have to want to, but you have to be willing. If you're not. A) You'll neither learn a thing, or be any good. & B) You're gonna get hurt."

If you jump enough times? You're going to have to chop one sooner or later. It comes w/the territory. OP, a lot of good advice given in this thread. Do whatever you have to do to get over this. Is an intentional cutaway a possibility @your DZ? I saw someone wearing a third chest chute @my DZ last summer. He was trying out a Skyhook setup. Maybe getting it over with would help you?

edit: Oops. I forgot you're still a student. Something to think about for after you get your A.

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