FreeflyGoat 0 #126 February 17, 2011 Well, it's an upcoming trend for businesses to test for cigarette smoking. Should skydiving employees be tested for tobacco? I got tested for alcohol once when I applied for a job, so since they do it, should the DZ follow the lead? If all the companies were jumping off a 50ft cliff, would you?_________________________ goat derka jerka bukkake jihad Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerpaul 1 #127 February 17, 2011 Quote>Are you two just trying to be a pita? No. >Agreed that the employer actually has the right? In most US states, absent an employment contract (and sometimes even with one): Yes. >Or agreed that following the logic, the employer has the right? That, too. >Too confusing for you? I hope not. >Does an employer have the right to tell you to stop skydiving or you lose your job? Same answer as above: In most US states, absent an employment contract (and sometimes even with one): Yes. And now, finally, do you think this is as it should be? Don't tell me about law - tell my your opinion regarding your employer's right to control what you do in your non-work time. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
michaelmullins 77 #128 February 17, 2011 QuoteNot all DZ's do this, but a few do. I personally think it is a great thing for the DZ to use in its marketing campaign and not a bad thing to keep every one safe. Any other opinions out there? Matt We test all of our staff's drugs to make sure they are fully potent before we allow their use. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
robinheid 0 #129 February 17, 2011 Quote Quote Not all DZ's do this, but a few do. I personally think it is a great thing for the DZ to use in its marketing campaign and not a bad thing to keep every one safe. Any other opinions out there? Matt We test all of our staff's drugs to make sure they are fully potent before we allow their use. +1 LOL Or as Woody Harrelson told Jay Leno one night, "I don't do drugs any more... of course, I don't do drugs any less." SCR-6933 / SCS-3463 / D-5533 / BASE 44 / CCS-37 / 82d Airborne (Ret.) "The beginning of wisdom is to first call things by their right names." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
matthewcline 0 #130 February 17, 2011 QuoteQuoteNot all DZ's do this, but a few do. I personally think it is a great thing for the DZ to use in its marketing campaign and not a bad thing to keep every one safe. Any other opinions out there? Matt We test all of our staff's drugs to make sure they are fully potent before we allow their use. LOL MattAn Instructors first concern is student safety. So, start being safe, first!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
warpedskydiver 0 #131 February 17, 2011 Matt some of us older veterans will recall that guys (and girls) were getting popped for failing the piss test when it was first instituted. What they failed to realize is that people were failing the test when deployed in places where access was impossible. Furthermore many years later the US ARMY had to rescind some of the legal actions against service members because the test was severely flawed. There were quite a few substances that were causing tests to be positive and also at fault were the methods used. Basically you had a lab getting paid more to find positive tests for THC. We had an entire unit including the battalion CO come up positive for opiates. That took some splainin' when the shit hit the fan. O6's don't like insubordinate piss-ant assholes acting like they are god. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
warpedskydiver 0 #132 February 17, 2011 We had people tested on Monday = Fail Tuesday = Pass Wednesday = Pass Thursday = Fail Friday =Pass You would think that someone would have gotten their head out of their ass in a week instead of years. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
matthewcline 0 #133 February 17, 2011 I started in the DOD system in '86. It has gotten better and now "false" positives are a rarity. But it is a condition of employment. The condition being, do not do Illegal drugs and do not come to work drunk. I still have not heard a good argument why an Employer can't have drug testing as a condition of employment. If the test is suspect it can be challenged, just like the old DOD ones. Some one mentioned a "DOT" program, what is it? MattAn Instructors first concern is student safety. So, start being safe, first!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
warpedskydiver 0 #134 February 17, 2011 I do not think marijuana should be illegal, but I do think that in many cases pre-employment testing is warranted. As well as in serious accidents that may be due to negligence or impairment. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerpaul 1 #135 February 17, 2011 Quote I still have not heard a good argument why an Employer can't have drug testing as a condition of employment. Actually, you have. In fact, you have heard several. You just don't recognize them as such. In much the same way, I will say that I have not heard a good argument why an employer should. I don't expect you to change your mind. That's okay. Since you seem to feel that you have a significant drug problem in your business with which you must deal, you go right ahead. If you don't feel you have a drug problem in your business, why do you want to do this in the first place? If you just want to be sure that nobody smoked pot yesterday, even though his performance is unaffected, then please call it what it really is. You want the people who work for you to live up to your personal ideas of how they should act when they are not working. If you have a performance problem with a staff member, you already have a perfect right to fire him. So, really, what is your objective? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
matthewcline 0 #136 February 17, 2011 It is not my company nor yours it is the Employers, no one has made an actual argument that says an Employer can not make it a condition of employment at that Employers company . Some companies will get discounts in insurance, for some, it will be required for insurance. I have heard many for why one would not work there and a few that it is part of a Government collaboration. But some who have made that argument volunteer to take part in a testing program, since they want to have a job. I too think we have drugs that are illegal that should not be. I think they should be legalized and follow rules like alcohol use. MattAn Instructors first concern is student safety. So, start being safe, first!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
warpedskydiver 0 #137 February 17, 2011 QuoteIt is not my company nor yours it is the Employers, no one has made an actual argument that says an Employer can not make it a condition of employment at that Employers company . Some companies will get discounts in insurance, for some, it will be required for insurance. I have heard many for why one would not work there and a few that it is part of a Government collaboration. But some who have made that argument volunteer to take part in a testing program, since they want to have a job. I too think we have drugs that are illegal that should not be. I think they should be legalized and follow rules like alcohol use. Matt Agreed 100% Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerpaul 1 #138 February 17, 2011 QuoteIt is not my company nor yours it is the Employers, no one has made an actual argument that says an Employer can not make it a condition of employment at that Employers company . Some companies will get discounts in insurance, for some, it will be required for insurance. I have heard many for why one would not work there and a few that it is part of a Government collaboration. But some who have made that argument volunteer to take part in a testing program, since they want to have a job. I too think we have drugs that are illegal that should not be. I think they should be legalized and follow rules like alcohol use. Matt Okay, in that case, I believe we have established that within our current system, the employer can mandate drug testing. That's what the lawyers who post here have said. But, your original post was this - QuoteNot all DZ's do this, but a few do. I personally think it is a great thing for the DZ to use in its marketing campaign and not a bad thing to keep every one safe. Any other opinions out there? Matt So, I'm just wondering - do you still think it is a great thing for the DZ to use in its marketing campaign? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 622 #139 February 17, 2011 There are many employers that test as part of the application only to never test again. Go work there if it's an issue. People can make the decision on where to work. Plenty of places have no testing. I know of places that even have corporate sponsored safety meetings after work. There are DZ's that test, there are ones that don't. It's up to you. But if something happens, don't be surprised when someone wants you tested. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 0 #140 February 17, 2011 QuoteAnd now, finally, do you think this is as it should be? Don't tell me about law - tell my your opinion regarding your employer's right to control what you do in your non-work time. Unless it directly impacts safety, I'm generally very opposed to it. I made this clear in my posts #s 43, 109, 110, 112 and 118, above. This is more than just an employer's right to control what you do in your off time. It's about, for example, an employer's right to know what prescription meds you're taking, and thus the very private details of your health or how you manage it. What if you're taking Paxil for depression, or Antabuse for alcoholism, or Adderall for ADHD, or Minoxidil for baldness, or Viagra for ED, or Plavix for a heart condition? Far, far more often than not: none of your employer's goddamn business. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 622 #141 February 17, 2011 That's why companies like this are around... synthetic genetic neutral urine Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
thrillstalker 0 #142 February 17, 2011 QuoteWe test all of our staff's drugs to make sure they are fully potent before we allow their use. finally a post that makes sense!!!"Never grow a wishbone, where your backbone ought to be." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #143 February 17, 2011 QuoteJust an American that is sick of rights being abused... Rights? As applicable to the topic? All you guys saying At work = No Own time = Yes. Hmmmm....my work day starts at 8:00 am. I can drink/smoke gallons or pounds up to 7:59 and be good to go because I didn't do it on company time. Got it now, thanks. Nobody ever said anything like that. Nobody ever said that you could be impaired at your job. Nah, I was just making fun of how some people make use of extremes to make a point...it's stupid, eh? QuoteDoes that give the employer the right to tell you not to skydive? It's my opinion that an employer can do whatever he likes with respect to this topic (including skydiving and such). It's incumbent on him to provide his business with the most reliable, dependable, honest and safest employees he can get. Like it or not, things people do off-the-job affect all those issues on one way or another. Look, if one goes to work for a company knowing what the rules are, one has no complaints about getting fired for violating those rules. Doesn't honesty and integrity count for anything anymore?My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #144 February 17, 2011 Quote I know of places that even have corporate sponsored safety meetings after work. Are they hiring? My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rick 67 #145 February 17, 2011 Quote Quote I know of places that even have corporate sponsored safety meetings after work. Are they hiring? send me your resume You can't be drunk all day if you don't start early! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
virgin-burner 1 #146 February 17, 2011 Quote Quote Quote I know of places that even have corporate sponsored safety meetings after work. Are they hiring? send me your resume i'm looking for a job too! “Some may never live, but the crazy never die.” -Hunter S. Thompson "No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try." -Yoda Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
matthewcline 0 #148 February 17, 2011 Quote So, I'm just wondering - do you still think it is a great thing for the DZ to use in its marketing campaign? I stepped back from that, as I admit it was not thought out very far. Making a whole campaign would not be a "great idea". I can see it being on the web page or in the info fliers as a quick mention though. MattAn Instructors first concern is student safety. So, start being safe, first!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
matthewcline 0 #149 February 17, 2011 Quote Look, if one goes to work for a company knowing what the rules are, one has no complaints about getting fired for violating those rules. Doesn't honesty and integrity count for anything anymore? +1 MattAn Instructors first concern is student safety. So, start being safe, first!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
robinheid 0 #150 February 17, 2011 Quote It is not my company nor yours it is the Employers, no one has made an actual argument that says an Employer can not make it a condition of employment at that Employers company . Some companies will get discounts in insurance, for some, it will be required for insurance. I have heard many for why one would not work there and a few that it is part of a Government collaboration. But some who have made that argument volunteer to take part in a testing program, since they want to have a job. I too think we have drugs that are illegal that should not be. I think they should be legalized and follow rules like alcohol use. Matt Okay Matt, here you go: Under cover of sharia, drug testing actually violates every employment law there is against discrimination in the workplace. Period. Full stop. SCR-6933 / SCS-3463 / D-5533 / BASE 44 / CCS-37 / 82d Airborne (Ret.) "The beginning of wisdom is to first call things by their right names." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
