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matthewcline

Staff Drug Testing as a Condition of Employment.

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I also am stuck in other 'professional' stereotypes.

good breath
haircut
shaved
polite
no smoking in front of/around students

how incredibly close minded, huh?

crazy concept when you are trying to get mainstream business in field where trust is pretty important - it's not about what I, or any other jumper, personally thinks, it's about what the customers will take in so they come and spend their money

be clean and professional, enjoy the experience with the customer and make it fun, take your cues from the customer as to what they are enjoying and being annoyed by, be relaxed, be informative. It's ok for them to see we cut it up after the light goes on just as much as it's good to see we are fun but professional while working

I'm still surprised at the number of 'skydiving professionals' that act like their business/employment is all about them and not about the customer.



If you and Matt start Team Close-Minded, can I be Tail? :P

There are some that think it's OK to be a slob and call themselves "professionals." Glad it's not that way around here.



So if someone plays with drugs on thier off time, "They" are now a Slob?

BTW, I have been drug free over 16 years....So not a doper trying to stand up for my "bro's", Just an American that is sick of rights being abused...

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Please answer the question about what kind of test. DOT or over the counter.

1. How many jump pilots are working in airline or cargo jobs for their real jobs? A bunch of them. And if memory serves me right, your only allowed to take part in one DOT program at a time. Let alone the fact the unions would have a fit over it.

2. No self respecting person taking part in a DOT program for a real job is going to risk that by taking part in a second program, more so if it's some stupid cheap ass over the counter kit test. I know of one dz that was using them in the mid-eastern region for a time in order to be on staff, not sure about now.

3. As someone who takes part in a federal mandated DOT program I sure as hell will not submit to any non chain of custody testing done in the back office and conducted by DZO or DZ manger, if you can't use the federal programs results, then I wouldn't want to work for you in the first place. I think over all anyone who works part time on the weekend playing skydiving instructor as a Indy contractor and has a real job testing should be good enough.

Like I said seen many many "staff" who are full time skydivers doing hard ass drugs that don't show up in piss tests, so the only people your weeding out (pun intended) are the pot smokers. And frankly this industry would be hard pressed for a lot of the full time live a tent dz bums if we ran off all the pot smokers, and that's a fact jack!
you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

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I also am stuck in other 'professional' stereotypes.

good breath
haircut
shaved
polite
no smoking in front of/around students

how incredibly close minded, huh?

crazy concept when you are trying to get mainstream business in field where trust is pretty important - it's not about what I, or any other jumper, personally thinks, it's about what the customers will take in so they come and spend their money

be clean and professional, enjoy the experience with the customer and make it fun, take your cues from the customer as to what they are enjoying and being annoyed by, be relaxed, be informative. It's ok for them to see we cut it up after the light goes on just as much as it's good to see we are fun but professional while working

I'm still surprised at the number of 'skydiving professionals' that act like their business/employment is all about them and not about the customer.



If you and Matt start Team Close-Minded, can I be Tail? :P

There are some that think it's OK to be a slob and call themselves "professionals." Glad it's not that way around here.



So if someone plays with drugs on thier off time, "They" are now a Slob?

BTW, I have been drug free over 16 years....So not a doper trying to stand up for my "bro's", Just an American that is sick of rights being abused...



Read what I quoted.
Good breath
Haircut
Shaved
Polite
No smoking in front of/around students
I'd add not cursing in front of students, and acting like a professional on the plane, not making comments about "he doesn't own a Ferrarri," etc.

The absence of the above would connote a "slob" in my view, yes. If you feel it's your right to be a slob in your job, that's fine so long as it doesn't reflect on my job, my DZ.
No, smoking weed doesn't at all make someone a slob any more than drinking beer. But if you're going to use, then follow the same rules as responsible alcohol use proscribes.

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Like that sort of a test would stop those that choose to 'party' anyway.
Synthetics
There are numerous companies such as this.
Used to 'pass' a drug screen as well as clear a medical test for insurance and/or health care plans. Wouldn't want them finding any genetic issues they don't want to provide coverage for....
:P

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I agree, Matt. It is all about informing the "contractors" of the conditions of their status as contractors. Once they have notice, they comply or they are no longer DZ contractors. My DZ has thought about this, but not implemented it.
Charlie Gittins, 540-327-2208
AFF-I, Sigma TI, IAD-I
MEI, CFI-I, Senior Rigger
Former DZO, Blue Ridge Skydiving Adventures

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DSE and Matt:

When you start your business, I'll apply. I agree with the idea that a DZ that looks professional has a pretty good chance of being evaluated as being professional.
Charlie Gittins, 540-327-2208
AFF-I, Sigma TI, IAD-I
MEI, CFI-I, Senior Rigger
Former DZO, Blue Ridge Skydiving Adventures

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Please answer the question about what kind of test. DOT or over the counter.What ever the employer chooses, it is their choice

1. How many jump pilots are working in airline or cargo jobs for their real jobs? A bunch of them. And if memory serves me right, your only allowed to take part in one DOT program at a time. Let alone the fact the unions would have a fit over it.Then I would think an Employer would accept the results for those tests

2. No self respecting person taking part in a DOT program for a real job is going to risk that by taking part in a second program, more so if it's some stupid cheap ass over the counter kit test. I know of one dz that was using them in the mid-eastern region for a time in order to be on staff, not sure about now.For some popel Skydiving is Thier REAL job, for other part time

3. As someone who takes part in a federal mandated DOT program I sure as hell will not submit to any non chain of custody testing done in the back office and conducted by DZO or DZ manger, if you can't use the federal programs results, then I wouldn't want to work for you in the first place. I think over all anyone who works part time on the weekend playing skydiving instructor as a Indy contractor and has a real job testing should be good enough. I agree if your already being tested then just bring the results

Like I said seen many many "staff" who are full time skydivers doing hard ass drugs that don't show up in piss tests, so the only people your weeding out (pun intended) are the pot smokers. And frankly this industry would be hard pressed for a lot of the full time live a tent dz bums if we ran off all the pot smokers, and that's a fact jack!


An Instructors first concern is student safety.
So, start being safe, first!!!

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Not all DZ's do this, but a few do.

I personally think it is a great thing for the DZ to use in its marketing campaign and not a bad thing to keep every one safe.

Any other opinions out there?

Matt




From a business standpoint, a drop zone owner would be very smart to implement random drug testing of their employees. This obviously doesn't sit well with some of the people responding to your question. But from a legal standpoint and given the amount of time some DZ's spend in court over any given thing from family members suing after a death or the average joe who tripped in the parking lot and hurt themselves, having a work place that conducts controlled drug testing removes one avenue someones lawyer might pursue as a means to get money out of the DZ for their client.

From a marketing standpoint, I don't think it would be a good idea to throw that out there as a selling point to the general public.
"It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required"
Some people dream about flying, I live my dream
SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING

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Along the same lines as some of the posts in this thread, I found this in the classifieds -
http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/classifieds/detail_page.cgi?ID=104687;d=1

If I'm reading it right, they're looking for drug free non-smokers only. Everyone asks for drug free, and some back it up with actual testing, but this is the first I've heard of a DZ not hiring smokers (if that is indeed the case).

How long before no drugs, tobacco, or alcohol?

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Well, you seemed to be making a distinction between safety issues and having an "obedient mind set" that would indicate they are good decision makers.

If anyone shows up actually drunk, no argument at all. They are in fact a safety hazard.

If someone shows up sober, but with blood factors indicating they had been drunk 3 days ago, that's very different. You could fire them because you don't like drunks, or because you are advertising "teetotaling instructors" or whatever - but it's no longer a safety issue. Likewise if someone shows up who smoked pot three days ago. Again, the DZO could fire them because of an image he wants to uphold or whatever, but it has gone from a safety concern to an image one.



+1
To me, no distinction between alcohol and pot if used while NOT jumping or instructing or driving or flying.

It's not a safety issue- it becomes an issue of obedience and image.

And I actually have a fair amount of respect for people who consciously choose, if they have the opportunity and desire, to break certain laws if the laws are completely unjust.

Sit-ins/civil rights anyone?

Marijuana which has medical benefits and which a test cannot distinguish use 3 hours from 30 days ago is schedule 1 "no medical use and extremely dangerous;" and COCAINE and oxycontin are schedule 2? No logic... just craziness.) Drug laws that make no sense to me are the next civil and constitutional rights issue.

Though impairment and safety are key in the sport; I simply agree with those saying such drug testing does NOT ensure this safety in any way and legal drugs can be more dangerous...
"You must be the change you wish to see in the world." Gandhi

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good breath
haircut
shaved
polite
no smoking in front of/around students

how incredibly close minded, huh?




What a unique concept.
People keep taking about taking skydiving “mainstream.” Well “mainstream” looking professional and conducing yourself in a professional manner. There has always been a different standard for drug testing when the position involves the lives of others. Working in field of skydiving, instructors, riggers and pilots are all responsible for the safety of the uninitiated public. jmo

Sparky
My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

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If you want me to behave in a certain way as your employee, then I'll behave that way - potentially including not drinking or taking drugs, if that's important to you.

That said. Piss-testing is so far beyond the level of what I think an employer should be allowed to do, that I won't allow it.

You're basically invading my metabolic privacy for (IMO) an advertising gimmick, and there's a dignity issue there. I take this seriously enough to have turned down a job because of it in the past. And no, I wasn't taking any drugs, illicit or otherwise, at the time.
--
"I'll tell you how all skydivers are judged, . They are judged by the laws of physics." - kkeenan

"You jump out, pull the string and either live or die. What's there to be good at?

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good breath
haircut
shaved
polite
no smoking in front of/around students

how incredibly close minded, huh?




What a unique concept.
People keep taking about taking skydiving “mainstream.” Well “mainstream” looking professional and conducing yourself in a professional manner. There has always been a different standard for drug testing when the position involves the lives of others. Working in field of skydiving, instructors, riggers and pilots are all responsible for the safety of the uninitiated public. jmo

Sparky



How does hair fit in there? there is nothing wrong with well kept long hair...[:/]

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That said. Piss-testing is so far beyond the level of what I think an employer should be allowed to do, that I won't allow it.



it is influenced by the government's need to regulate what we as a free people put into our body. they are using employee drug testing as a club to force their moral and religious views into the general public.

if you support forced drug testing you are giving the government the sheep it needs.
"Never grow a wishbone, where your backbone ought to be."

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That said. Piss-testing is so far beyond the level of what I think an employer should be allowed to do, that I won't allow it.



it is influenced by the government's need to regulate what we as a free people put into our body. they are using employee drug testing as a club to force their moral and religious views into the general public.

if you support forced drug testing you are giving the government the sheep it needs.



As a group we are bound and determined to get this sent to SC.[:/]

If it a condition of employment go work some where else.

Some take a test already for "Real" work but are against it for the "weekend" work? I do not understand that rational.

If the employer (not the government) has it as part of their hiring process that is their Company, so it is their way.

As to the "marketing" I was not clear. By this I meant so many DZ's have web pages that say "We are a USPA GM DZ and only use USPA Instructors". I was thinking it would be used like this: "we are a drug free facility and conduct random testing. Our state of the art hanger houses....."

Not a whole add run, just a line or two.
Matt
An Instructors first concern is student safety.
So, start being safe, first!!!

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I have many issues with that article but ill stay on topic. Use during work is absolutely a problem and should not be tolerated. Use on your own time is not a safety issue, period. As mentioned by others you basically single out the pot smokers. Packers smoking and packing student gear as the article alledges is a problem. Saftey meeting at the end of the day is not. And sueing for a toggle fire that wasn't dealt with properly is asinine.
Losers make excuses, Winners make it happen
God is Good
Beer is Great
Swoopers are crazy.

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Use on your own time is not a safety issue, period.


I would hate to be the DZO on the witness stand trying to defend that statement. If the DZO knew or should have known about the Safety meetings and did nothing to prevent them, he is screwed. Period.
For the same reason I jump off a perfectly good diving board.

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