matthewcline 0 #1 Posted January 26, 2011 Not all DZ's do this, but a few do. I personally think it is a great thing for the DZ to use in its marketing campaign and not a bad thing to keep every one safe. Any other opinions out there? MattAn Instructors first concern is student safety. So, start being safe, first!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wildcard451 0 #2 January 26, 2011 QuoteNot all DZ's do this, but a few do. I personally think it is a great thing for the DZ to use in its marketing campaign and not a bad thing to keep every one safe. Any other opinions out there? Matt All for it. My job requires it to allow me to deal with peoples' lives on a daily basis. No opposition to the idea at all. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
regulator 0 #3 January 26, 2011 I think some of the packers would be totally pissed off...but of course if this was enforced at an already in busines DZ...if it was done from scratch it could work. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
thrillstalker 0 #4 January 26, 2011 good luck with that..."Never grow a wishbone, where your backbone ought to be." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BIGUN 1,049 #5 January 26, 2011 Let me begin by saying that I think its a good idea and I'll piss in your bottle anytime. Have to do it for my job as a condition of employment. Having said that, one point to contend with is that most staff at a DZ is a relationship of "Independent Contractor." So unless, there is a Contractor's Agreement in place which has a clause that stipulates...Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerpaul 1 #6 January 26, 2011 QuoteNot all DZ's do this, but a few do. I personally think it is a great thing for the DZ to use in its marketing campaign and not a bad thing to keep every one safe. Any other opinions out there? Matt Sure, I think that regular drug testing is an invasion of privacy. We don't regularly have a breathalyzer on hand, though if one favors drug testing as a condition for continued employment, maybe we should. I have no problem with testing in response to an apparent impairment. But a positive test is not always proof positive that there is an impairment either. Testing is also a problem when certain drugs are in a hazy status. (Oh! I didn't think about that pun when I first wrote it. Sorry. Questionable or indeterminate status.) There are states with medical marijuana laws, and some that have considered legalization. In California, it is now only an infraction to possess small amounts for personal use. No trial, a fine, and no criminal record. For tandem masters and pilots, there are plenty of drugs that will invalidate their medical certificates. Do you suggest testing for them? They are equally illegal to be used while exercising the privileges for which the medical certificate is required. Now, please understand, I do not advocate JUI. I just don't like testing before the fact. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
matthewcline 0 #7 January 26, 2011 I think it can be done at a DZ any time. Just have to give advance notice and let every staffer know. Sure Full Time and Contract Staff will have to have it announced to them in a way to make it "legal". But truly if the DZO says it is a condition of employment, the staff can take the test or leave. MattAn Instructors first concern is student safety. So, start being safe, first!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
matthewcline 0 #8 January 26, 2011 Do the States with medical Marijuana have a "throttle to bottle" type clause? I think "drugs" should fall under the same enforcement as Alcohol. But until then. As most places none prescription "drugs" are illegal, I think testing is a good marketing and safety plan. I think Safety should be the higher priority of course. MattAn Instructors first concern is student safety. So, start being safe, first!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Heatmiser 0 #9 January 26, 2011 Quote Do the States with medical Marijuana have a "throttle to bottle" type clause? I think "drugs" should fall under the same enforcement as Alcohol. But until then. As most places none prescription "drugs" are illegal, I think testing is a good marketing and safety plan. I think Safety should be the higher priority of course. Matt Most pilots I'm sure are glad it's bottle to throttle, and not the other way around!What you say is reflective of your knowledge...HOW ya say it is reflective of your experience. Airtwardo Someone's going to be spanked! Hopefully, it will be me. Skymama Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
matthewcline 0 #10 January 26, 2011 Quote Quote Do the States with medical Marijuana have a "throttle to bottle" type clause? I think "drugs" should fall under the same enforcement as Alcohol. But until then. As most places none prescription "drugs" are illegal, I think testing is a good marketing and safety plan. I think Safety should be the higher priority of course. Matt Most pilots I'm sure are glad it's bottle to throttle, and not the other way around! Whoops!But really, aren't we all racing to happy hour each day at the "grind"? MattAn Instructors first concern is student safety. So, start being safe, first!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peek 20 #11 January 26, 2011 QuoteI personally think it is a great thing for the DZ to use in its marketing campaign ... I have always thought that it is terrible as a marketing idea. It is basically telling customers that "skydiving (and my business) attracts drug users". If I had a business of any kind, I would want the public to think that it is so professional that the type of person that used drugs would not be interested in working there. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jsreznor 0 #12 January 26, 2011 +1 ^^^ Telling the public that "We are a drug-free dropzone" makes people worry about it for every other dropzone where they don't say that. Ignorance is bliss, and advertising drug testing is a stupid idea. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,380 #13 January 26, 2011 >Telling the public that "We are a drug-free dropzone" makes people >worry about it for every other dropzone where they don't say that. Actually, I would think it makes people wonder if they used to have a big drug problem, and are now playing up their newly-clean staff of former drug users. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jsreznor 0 #14 January 26, 2011 That too. Either way, it doesn't reflect well on the staff or the management of the business. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerpaul 1 #15 January 26, 2011 QuoteDo the States with medical Marijuana have a "throttle to bottle" type clause? I think "drugs" should fall under the same enforcement as Alcohol. But until then. As most places none prescription "drugs" are illegal, I think testing is a good marketing and safety plan. I think Safety should be the higher priority of course. Matt In CA, DUI is DUI. Doesn't pertain to just alcohol. I don't know how they establish impairment. Considering the effects of OTC drugs on the status of your medical, what it comes down to is presenting the illusion of safety, not the fact. According to the FAA, your pilot of tandem master can be messed up from taking an antihistamine. You are not testing for that. So again, you present the illusion of safety, not the fact. Others have commented on the ramification of that illusion. No need to repeat them here. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
thrillstalker 0 #16 January 26, 2011 QuoteQuoteI personally think it is a great thing for the DZ to use in its marketing campaign ... I have always thought that it is terrible as a marketing idea. It is basically telling customers that "skydiving (and my business) attracts drug users". If I had a business of any kind, I would want the public to think that it is so professional that the type of person that used drugs would not be interested in working there. you bring up a very good point."Never grow a wishbone, where your backbone ought to be." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DiverMike 5 #17 January 26, 2011 QuoteIgnorance is bliss, and advertising drug testing is a stupid idea. I don't know the demographics of tandem passengers, but I would imagine a significant percentage of them are employed. Of those, a significant percentage are likely to be subject to drug testing. 20 years ago I would agree the general response would be - "boy they must have had a drug problem here". In todays employment environment, I think the general response would be "of course they should be subject to drug testing." Hell - I have to pee in a cup just to be allowed to develop software upon which nobody's life depends. For the same reason I jump off a perfectly good diving board. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Driver1 0 #18 January 26, 2011 I think it's a great idea! It would clean up the field of instructors, especially down in your neck of the woods.There will be no addressing the customers as "Bitches", "Morons" or "Retards"! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #19 January 26, 2011 DZ can do what they like with their private businesses. I think it's a great idea and a good note on the website - but I wouldn't build a marketing plan around it. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Throttlebender 0 #20 January 26, 2011 Care to expand on that statement?Life expands or contracts in proportion to one's courage. ~Anais Nin Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 620 #21 January 26, 2011 Where he's working now has been clean for years. At least 8 years that I've been there it has been. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
matthewcline 0 #22 January 26, 2011 I wouldn't say it should be the plan, but mentioned, yes. And to those who are trying to say it s a bad idea, like it has been, mentioned drug testing for employment is common place now. So I ask: Why would we as an Industry want to "avoid" drug testing? Many DZ's say they are the safest or better than the other DZ nearby. Wouldn't this be part of safety? Don't you send instructors off to brush their teeth when they smell like a brewery? how about when they smell like they got baked in Spicoli's van? It is about the perception of a Professional Skydiving Center. How can one look like a Professional Business if it puts on the facade of a counter culture environment? Skydiving is no longer out of the public eye. WE need to keep up with where we have taken our selves. MattAn Instructors first concern is student safety. So, start being safe, first!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
matthewcline 0 #23 January 26, 2011 QuoteWhere he's working now has been clean for years. At least 8 years that I've been there it has been. Ya lost me. I know your responding to driver1 about his comment towards me, but I am lost. MattAn Instructors first concern is student safety. So, start being safe, first!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coreefdiver 0 #24 January 26, 2011 QuoteDZ can do what they like with their private businesses. I think it's a great idea and a good note on the website - but I wouldn't build a marketing plan around it. that about sums it up for me. lots of people fail to understand that you're free to do business where you like. Don't like the staff? policies? prices? Go somewhere else. No one is forcing you to patronize any establishment. vote with your feet and/or wallet ;)DS#727, DB Cooper #41, POPS #11065, SCR #13183, FA #2125, SCS #8306, HALO #309 SRA #5930 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #25 January 26, 2011 I also am stuck in other 'professional' stereotypes. good breath haircut shaved polite no smoking in front of/around students how incredibly close minded, huh? crazy concept when you are trying to get mainstream business in field where trust is pretty important - it's not about what I, or any other jumper, personally thinks, it's about what the customers will take in so they come and spend their money be clean and professional, enjoy the experience with the customer and make it fun, take your cues from the customer as to what they are enjoying and being annoyed by, be relaxed, be informative. It's ok for them to see we cut it up after the light goes on just as much as it's good to see we are fun but professional while working I'm still surprised at the number of 'skydiving professionals' that act like their business/employment is all about them and not about the customer. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
