lvflyfast 0 #1 February 8, 2011 i watched a 100lb AFF I take a 240lb guy on his AFF 1, she lost grip off the step, jump went to hell. AFF I is a long time jumper but i am wondering if this was really safe/a good choice. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Remster 24 #2 February 8, 2011 Quotelost grip off the step That's the issue, not the AFFI weight.Remster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lvflyfast 0 #3 February 8, 2011 from what i understand it happens often with this AFF I and bigger people. maybe strength training is the solution? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steveorino 7 #4 February 8, 2011 I'm on the flip side. I weigh 230#. I know my limits on a single AFFI AFF jump. But losing the grip off the step is a recipe for it to go to hell quickly. IMHO steveOrino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NWFlyer 2 #5 February 8, 2011 Quotefrom what i understand it happens often with this AFF I and bigger people. maybe strength training is the solution? You can be as strong as you want but if your timing is way off, it's not going to help much. However it's difficult for anyone of us to judge what the AFFI should or shouldn't be doing based on a couple of anonymous internet postings from the observations of a relatively inexperienced jumper. I would hope that if the powers that be (DZO, S&TA, other instructors) have concerns about her performance that they'd address them directly with her."There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
virgin-burner 1 #6 February 8, 2011 errr, isnt it normal for the AFFI to be IN the plane while the student is kneeling in the door or so? or how should i put that mental picture in my head? “Some may never live, but the crazy never die.” -Hunter S. Thompson "No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try." -Yoda Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Southern_Man 0 #7 February 8, 2011 Quote errr, isnt it normal for the AFFI to be IN the plane while the student is kneeling in the door or so? or how should i put that mental picture in my head? For a few jumps there are two instructors. At my Otter dropzone the reserve side instructor is on the camera step while the main side instructor is in the airplane beside the student."What if there were no hypothetical questions?" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lvflyfast 0 #8 February 8, 2011 it was a 182, student on the step, aff I in the door. i was more wondering/thinking if its common/ok to have such a weight/size dif with student, aff i. i am 6' 220 lbs and hv jumped with people of dif sizes but being bigger than most i hv never exp trying to hang on to someone twice my size Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SimonBones 1 #9 February 8, 2011 That depends on the skill level of the AFF-I: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lihAHNZiMIQ If a 100lb AFF-I can fly their body well in all orientations, no single fall rate would be an issue. Sadly, most people will only practice belly flying to prepare for AFF 108 way head down world record!!! http://www.simonbones.com Hit me up on Facebook Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
virgin-burner 1 #10 February 8, 2011 Quote Quote errr, isnt it normal for the AFFI to be IN the plane while the student is kneeling in the door or so? or how should i put that mental picture in my head? For a few jumps there are two instructors. At my Otter dropzone the reserve side instructor is on the camera step while the main side instructor is in the airplane beside the student. sorry, i misread the OP, thought it was on a later AFF with only one instructor; my bad!“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.” -Hunter S. Thompson "No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try." -Yoda Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skybytch 259 #11 February 8, 2011 Quoteisnt it normal for the AFFI to be IN the plane while the student is kneeling in the door or so? Depends on the aircraft and the dz. I know one dz that does a line exit for two instructor AFF jumps - both instructors and the student are outside the plane prior to launch. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Para5-0 0 #12 February 9, 2011 I personally know a 100 lb AFF instructor and she is one of the best in the sport. (10000 + jumps). A light AFFI learns to adjust the same way a heavy AFFI learns to adjust for lighter students. What you suggested was an error that could have happend regardless of the weight. Someone above mentioned the outside AFFI is on the camera step and that is not true. they are in the doorway assisting with setup. The camera step would be too far back at least on most larger crafts. There are many ways to set up for a two instructor jump and it depends on the aircraft and the DZ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
davelepka 4 #13 February 9, 2011 Quotefrom what i understand it happens often with this AFF I It shouldn't. Part of an AAF Is job is to hang on. First you hang on, then you fix whatever you're hanging onto. You can't always prevent things from going wrong, but if you hang on when they do, you're in prime position to fix whatever needs fixing. In terms of size dfferential between students and instructors, it varies greatly from situation to situation. However, there are times where the difference is just too much, and the better idea is for the instructor to pass the jump to another. If you're an above or below average sized jumper, knowing when to pass on a student isn't a knock to your abilities, it's a nod to your good judgement and realistic thinking. Besides, if you're a big guy who passes on the super lightweights, you're the go-to guy for the anvils when the other instructors run out of lead. Vice versa if you're the lightweight, let the fattys go with someone esle, and you get the looooong freefalls you get when the dive is motoring along at 92 mph. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 7 #14 February 9, 2011 Quotei watched a 100lb AFF I take a 240lb guy on his AFF 1, she lost grip off the step, jump went to hell. AFF I is a long time jumper but i am wondering if this was really safe/a good choice. As long as the AFFI can stay with the faster fallrate, it is no issue at all."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
matthewcline 0 #15 February 9, 2011 Quote That depends on the skill level of the AFF-I: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lihAHNZiMIQ If a 100lb AFF-I can fly their body well in all orientations, no single fall rate would be an issue. Sadly, most people will only practice belly flying to prepare for AFF That is a cool skydive, reminds me of "Black Majik" fro ma few years back. But that is really not how one should be conducting an AFF jump. I agree one should have skills that may incorporate FF moves to catch up to a student, but the AFF-I should be on their belly once caught up. Remember a lot of Students use Us as a reference for up and down. Just like they think the Earth is Relative to them on exit, no matter how many times we tell, show and preach to them about relative wind. MattAn Instructors first concern is student safety. So, start being safe, first!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
virgin-burner 1 #16 February 9, 2011 Quote That depends on the skill level of the AFF-I: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lihAHNZiMIQ If a 100lb AFF-I can fly their body well in all orientations, no single fall rate would be an issue. Sadly, most people will only practice belly flying to prepare for AFF looks like the video i tried to look for was pulled.. AFFI fighting with a student, student holds a nice suit almost the whole way down while he's clinging onto the AFFI.. the AFFI is one of the best freefliers i know.“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.” -Hunter S. Thompson "No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try." -Yoda Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Southern_Man 0 #17 February 9, 2011 Quote Someone above mentioned the outside AFFI is on the camera step and that is not true. they are in the doorway assisting with setup. The camera step would be too far back at least on most larger crafts. There are many ways to set up for a two instructor jump and it depends on the aircraft and the DZ Whoops, sorry, I spoke beyond my experience. Apologies."What if there were no hypothetical questions?" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jonathan.newman 1 #18 February 21, 2011 Matt and Dave hit the nail on the head. It's about matching fall rate. A 220 lbs instructor might have a hard time with a 100 lbs student. And vice versa. As a new AFFI, I thought I was superman. But it's very humbling to watch a light student float up on you and then start spinning. If you can't match the fall rate of your student, you have no business jumping with them. More specifically, your range as an AFFI must be faster than their fastest and slower than their slowest. It isn't fair (let alone safe) to the student who paid for the jump to get an instructor who can't fall with them. That said, to every problem, there is a solution, or range of solutions - lead belt, lead vest, tight suit, loose suit, XXL sweatshirt, AFF jacket. AND knowing your limitations. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stayhigh 2 #19 February 21, 2011 what gear is tso'd for 240 lbs students to begin with??Bernie Sanders for President 2016 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
