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KevinP

Making suggestions to AFF-I??

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Hi all,

PLEASE don't let this be misinterpreted. I absolutely, unequivocally, 100% trust ALL the instructors I have worked with. I just have 1 simple question.

If I feel like I need to flare earlier, how do I bring this to the AFF-I? Let me explain. When I flare up top doing the control check, it seems like it takes a little longer for the canopy to reach that slowest point than I have been given on approach. Perhaps I don't know enough to fully appreciate the landing sequence. How do I bring this up to my instructors without coming across as questioning their direction or method?

Thanks.
Sincerely,
Kevin

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Hi all,

PLEASE don't let this be misinterpreted. I absolutely, unequivocally, 100% trust ALL the instructors I have worked with. I just have 1 simple question.

If I feel like I need to flare earlier, how do I bring this to the AFF-I? Let me explain. When I flare up top doing the control check, it seems like it takes a little longer for the canopy to reach that slowest point than I have been given on approach. Perhaps I don't know enough to fully appreciate the landing sequence. How do I bring this up to my instructors without coming across as questioning their direction or method?

Thanks.



Oh, I don't know...maybe ask them directly?

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Oh, I don't know...maybe ask them directly?



That seems to be the easiest approach. I just wanted to bounce the situation around a bit here in the event that I was missing something. I'll talk to them, just wanted to make sure I was within my lane, so to speak.

Thanks
Sincerely,
Kevin

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The only stupid questions in skydiving are the ones you don'y ask.

There is a whole discussion to be had here regarding what is actually happening during all stages of the flare.

Go talk to your instructors, I'm sure they would be happy to answer any questions you have.
Have you seen my pants?
it"s a rough life, Livin' the dream
>:)

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You need to have this conversation with your AFFI.

There is more to flaring than just when. There is also how.

For example you may need to flare faster, rather than earlier. Nobody but your instructor will be able to tell you that.

Ask before your next jump, otherwise it will be on your mind.
"The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls."

~ CanuckInUSA

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Hi all,

PLEASE don't let this be misinterpreted. I absolutely, unequivocally, 100% trust ALL the instructors I have worked with. I just have 1 simple question.

If I feel like I need to flare earlier, how do I bring this to the AFF-I? Let me explain. When I flare up top doing the control check, it seems like it takes a little longer for the canopy to reach that slowest point than I have been given on approach. Perhaps I don't know enough to fully appreciate the landing sequence. How do I bring this up to my instructors without coming across as questioning their direction or method?

Thanks.



The BEST thing you can do is talk to your instructors directly, and do not rely on this forum for answers.
www.WestCoastWingsuits.com
www.PrecisionSkydiving.com

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No no. Don't get me wrong. I'm not asking about the mechanics behind landing. I'm asking is being straight-forward about it to my AFF-I the best approach. :S It sounds crazy now, but I didn't remember that golden rule about "there are no stupid questions." I can be that guy, though, given the chance.

Thanks for the encouragement. When I get there Saturday, I'll bring it up.
Sincerely,
Kevin

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No no. Don't get me wrong. I'm not asking about the mechanics behind landing. I'm asking is being straight-forward about it to my AFF-I the best approach. :S It sounds crazy now, but I didn't remember that golden rule about "there are no stupid questions." I can be that guy, though, given the chance.

Thanks for the encouragement. When I get there Saturday, I'll bring it up.



I'm not getting you wrong. Read my reply again and take it for what it's worth. Good luck :)
www.WestCoastWingsuits.com
www.PrecisionSkydiving.com

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I'm not getting you wrong. Read my reply again and take it for what it's worth. Good luck :)



Understood. And you are right. Naturally. :)

And GP101, I jump again on Saturday. I'm hoping to get L3-L5 done (if my finance person will release the funds for all three).

And of course I'm going to talk to the instructors. The reason for this wasn't necessarily if I should bring it up, but the most tactful approach.

I underestimated the response, it would seem. [:/]
Sincerely,
Kevin

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In all reality, its your job to land the canopy. The radio is back up, if you feel you know when to flare then you should do that.

Maybe a better suited question for your instructors would be how to handle a high flare. Just incase.

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It is no wonder so many people are scared to post a question on here. OP asks a sincere question that is concerning him, apparently enough to have him make this effort.
Kevin-Most AFFI's and I say most are approachable, just approach it in a positive fashion and he/she will be receptive to your concerns. Very shortly you will be on your own making the decisions on when or how to flare. Every canopy is a bit different so it is not a one all solution. The manual tells us 10-15 feet, we can agree on that. With the student canopies we use I get better results teaching 8-10 feet shoulders and 4-6 feet flare. I often try to give a visual to a student by telling them to picture a white van off ahead of them on landing, at van height come to your shoulders and when they think they can kick me in the head if I were in front of them flare smoothly and push the ground away from them until their vertical speed stops, (I know violent right). I have no idea if this helps but every instructor has a way of trying to teach it.
Again, very shortly you will be on your own and can play with it until you perfect it. In 100 or so jumps this will be a non issue and you may even laugh a bit at the minor problems you have encountered.
Ultimately, you want to land safely, so if you do not feel comfortable have a chat with your AFFI or maybe ask another instructor on the side as a harmless question.
and bouncing it around here is not a bad idea if you keep in mind everyone on here was born as an AFFI and never encountered any problems along the way.

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In all reality, its your job to land the canopy. The radio is back up, if you feel you know when to flare then you should do that.

Maybe a better suited question for your instructors would be how to handle a high flare. Just incase.



:S
“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.”
-Hunter S. Thompson
"No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try."
-Yoda

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Here's how you bring it up to them:

Say to them..."I feel like I need to flare earlier. When I flare up top doing the control check, it seems like it takes a little longer for the canopy to reach that slowest point than I have been given on approach. Let me explain."

That'll do it.
:)
My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

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Oh, I don't know...maybe ask them directly?




AND


Quote

Here's how you bring it up to them:

Say to them..."I feel like I need to flare earlier. When I flare up top doing the control check, it seems like it takes a little longer for the canopy to reach that slowest point than I have been given on approach. Let me explain."

That'll do it.
:)




And a couple of others in between:

Thank you! As overly-simplistic as it seems, this is exactly what I needed.

:)
Sincerely,
Kevin

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In all reality, its your job to land the canopy. The radio is back up, if you feel you know when to flare then you should do that.

Maybe a better suited question for your instructors would be how to handle a high flare. Just incase.



:S



problem chief? are you disagreeing with this line of thinking? If the radio was to break or fall off during his skydive do you reccomend him just landing with no flare, or just sit under canopy and let fate decide where and how he lands?

How much effort did it take to push that :S button?

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Kevin, they are not gods, they are just instructors. Talk to them.


That said, it helps if your questions sound like questions, vs. statements of fact. Be receptive even if the answer isn't the one you were expecting.

Some instructors are old an seasoned and set in their ways, some are new and fresh and only know one way, and some will have a variety of tools.

:)
----------------------------------------------
You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

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Just ask them ;) You got some good responses here, the one suggestion to add would be to ask if someone could video your landing, so that you can see for yourself exactly how high/fast/completely you are flaring... you'll be surprised how different things look when you see yourself from the way they feel in the moment and you'd learn quite a bit from that.

Do or do not, there is no try -Yoda

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Just ask them ;) You got some good responses here, the one suggestion to add would be to ask if someone could video your landing, so that you can see for yourself exactly how high/fast/completely you are flaring... you'll be surprised how different things look when you see yourself from the way they feel in the moment and you'd learn quite a bit from that.



I like that idea. I do take my little crappy camera with me, but it does have video. I just need to find someone who is waiting around in the student area. Shouldn't be too hard. Good call.
Sincerely,
Kevin

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Left on their own (eg. no radio) the vast majority of solo students flare Waaaaaay too early (50 feet versus the 6 to 10 feet ideal). In a worst-case scenario, that means pile-driving in straight down - or slightly backwards - which is a recipe for crushed spinal discs. Take it from a guy who has two herniated discs in his lower spine!

OTOH, if you flare too late, you slide in on your face.
Ho hum!
Forwards is the angle the human body s designed to absorb impacts from.

Exactly cancelling all your forward motion comes much later in the learning process.

So I recommend that you follow the advice of your instructors for the next dozen jumps.
It also helps if you stand on the edge of the landing field and observe dozens of other students landing.
Don't look too closely at senior jumpers, because their canopies flare vastly differently from student canopies.

And yes, your suggestion about asking a buddy to video your landings - from the ground - is a good idea. Just remind your buddy to coordinate with the radio/ground instructor.

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>And yes, your suggestion about asking a buddy to video your landings - from
>the ground - is a good idea. Just remind your buddy to coordinate with the
>radio/ground instructor.

Yes, this is critical. The last thing you want is to be trying to land near him to get good video while he jumps around trying to figure out where you will land. Coordinate with the ground instructor and tell your friend to STAY PUT! Preferably well away from where you will be landing.

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You don't have to worry about that. I have an innate ability to focus. Especially when my ankles, knees or a combination depend on it.

The camera thing will be the last effort. I'll get with the instructor on Saturday and see what s/he has. And I'll pay more attention to the sensations I am getting up top. It may be just skewed perception. Look for a report.
:)
Sincerely,
Kevin

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The camera thing will be the last effort.



Don't write it off just yet. I have done 4 canopy courses (with another 3 booked for this year!) and landing video was a major feature of all of them.

I think what Bill was trying to get at was just ignore the camera. Do your normal landing and keep the camera guy out of the way.
"The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls."

~ CanuckInUSA

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... If I can find a sucker, er, an assistant to act as a camera person ...


How about your "finance person"? You know, run the "insurance" angle on them: how useful are you if you have a broken foot? And why waste money on medical bills and medicines and stuff when you can waste it spend it on quality recreational activities? (And if they happen to be around, who knows? you might be able to squeeze another jump out of 'em.):ph34r:

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