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fasted3

Knocked out during skydive, what do you do?

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You are at a boogie and get on a nice little 3 way FF with two old jumping buddies. They aren't really current and only come to the boogie. They've been drinking all morning. You only see and jump with them once a year at the boogie.

Your skill set is ok to keep tracking of even two of the worst zoomers out there. What the hell - good smiles and a zoo dive.

3 more friends of the same ilk walk up and want to join. NO PROBLEM - it's a BOOGIE - whoo hoo, whoo hoo, all 5 have go pros by the way of course and are current with their 2 basejumps last month and actually 3 freefall jumps about 6 months ago.

Choices -
1 - I pull out of the dive, this is ridiculous
2 - I stay on the dive, it's crazy, but I have an AAD

I bet half the people here have seen this exact scenario time and again at the harder party boogies.....

I've seen people choose option 2 sadly enough. More times than I'm comfortably thinking about.

This is the discussion, and all these straw man arguments that pointing out this type of attitude equates to being anti-AAD is idiotic.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

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It happens to you.
What do you do?
Answer: die, most likely, fi you don't have an AAD.
If you don't have an AAD and have a better answer, I'd love to hear it.



I watched a guy who was knocked out (or otherwise incapacited) when he deployed.
The AAD made no difference. He still didn't survive.[:/]

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It happens to you.
What do you do?
Answer: die, most likely, fi you don't have an AAD.
If you don't have an AAD and have a better answer, I'd love to hear it.



I am likely to die any way. My reserve isn't going to do a lot without a flare!

:|
"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall"
=P

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It happens to you.
What do you do?
Answer: die, most likely, fi you don't have an AAD.
If you don't have an AAD and have a better answer, I'd love to hear it.



What do you normally do when you are knocked out? :S I would probably just sleep it off and hope no one shaves my eyebrows. :D:D


J
Be kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle.

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What? You can DIE doing this shit? Nobody fucking told me that?!



Yeah... I wanted my money back when I found out, but they told me to get stuffed, so now I'm stuck jumping anyway.

;)



If I were you, I'd find a better DZ that offered proper customer service then...
Remster

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Okay so I am kind of new to this sport, started this previous summer and have 105 jumps now. But, maybe I can add a little I am sure everyone remembers that during your training you have to keep your head on a swivel. If you skydive defensively you most likely will be able to react to situations that may cause you harm, i.e. if someone is coming swooping down to dock onto you and you have your head up and see them coming in way to fast you will be able to move the hell out the way.

Also, one way to prevent being knocked out is don't jump with people that you think are dangerous.

Hell, accidents happen in the unlikelihood that you do actually get knocked out I guess you better hope you don't have an Argus in your rig and your AAD fires properly and your reserve inflates fully, and that you somehow make it to the ground safely.

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>My reserve isn't going to do a lot without a flare!

Why do you say that?



The smaller size of the reserve, 110. There have been fatalities in the past for landings under fully deployed reserves with stowed brakes that are larger than mine.

I think the AAD is more likely to save me if I have a complete brain fart and I am doing something other than getting a canopy above my head.

But I try not to take the mindset that it is going to save me if I get knocked out.
"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall"
=P

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I was knocked unconcious, jumping with very experienced people, while I was giving the count still on the floater bar and plane , due to pilot error last summer.

You won't see the hit that knocks you out in freefall 99% of the time, IMHO. Head on a swivel or not.

I have had my helmet nearly knocked off doing 4 way with some super skydivers. Most of us have been kneed or elbowed right out of the plane before. It's not always the "dangerous" people. And why are the "dangerous" people still allowed to jump?

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>My reserve isn't going to do a lot without a flare!

Why do you say that?



Because he loads his reserve at 1.7?

When I was demoing an OP-126 as a main a while back that's actually something I didn't think to try out at the time. Leave the brakes stowed and chest strap cinched as I would have it in freefall and lean all my weight on one side of the harness. I think I'll shoot PD an e-mail and make sure they bring one out for Bridge the Gap so I can give it a shot.

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>The smaller size of the reserve, 110.

Ah. I'd suggest perhaps you get a reserve that really will save your life, in that case. There are really no good reasons for having a too-small reserve.



I don't disagree. I am going to look into the new PD reserves this summer to try to get some more fabric in the container.
"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall"
=P

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>I am going to look into the new PD reserves this summer to try to get
>some more fabric in the container.

Cool. I've been happy to see that companies are starting to offer large-reserve, small-main options in their gear now. One of the primary reasons I got a Mirage last time around was that they offer a container sized for a 143/160 reserve and a 109 main.

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So far I have only purchased second hand containers.

I love my Icons but I would give a hard look at a container that had a reserve main combo available that really upsized the reserve.
"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall"
=P

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Also, one way to prevent being knocked out is don't jump with people that you think are dangerous.



This is a good reason that you want to know who is on bigways or other organized jumps in which you may be participating. Ask questions about who has been invited to participate, and be sure you're comfortable with everyone on the load. This won't assure "no problems" but it definitely reduces the risk factor.

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I really don't think this is a stupid question. If you don't have an AAD you have no options. With one, you still have a chanve.



Okay, lets try this approach:

If you get knocked out with no AAD and don't recover before impact, it's very, very likely you're going to die. That's a given.

Now, try to imagine it this way. The odds that you will be knocked out are (this number is for comparison purposes only) say.. 1/10,000 jumps. Your AAD now has some statistical chance of improving your odds of survival IF AND ONLY IF wearing the AAD does not influence or modify your behavior such that you take risks you would not otherwise take without it.

If you make the choice to add additional risk because of the AAD, you are negating the benefit of having it when you get knocked out if those additional risks increase the odds that you'll kill yourself to (another number just for comparison) say... 1/1000 depending on the actual choices you make because of the AAD.

People who exhibit this kind of risk behavior are actually (in this example) INCREASING the potential risk by a full order of magnitude because they have an AAD. 10x is probably an extreme, but it's also probably not that far out there for some people and it's been shown that it's human nature to act this way.

That's all that most people are saying here. Obsessing about not dying if you get knocked on the skull is pointless if you don't mitigate every other risk as much as possible, up to and including deciding that jumping might be more risk than you are willing to accept if you are unwilling to jump without an AAD.

Understanding, analyzing, and accepting risk prepares you to handle risk. Depending on an AAD makes people lazy about considering actual risk.

I know I'm repeating what many others have said. I'm just taking a shot that a different approach might help.
Owned by Remi #?

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If you skydive defensively you most likely will be able to react to situations that may cause you harm



I wish that were true. I have seen videos of two scary incidents involving friends of mine.

In the first video a belly flyer gets speared by another jumper swooping down to the formation... the first jumper had no clue what was coming. The swooping jumper approached in the first jumper's blind spot. It was only luck that neither jumper was seriously hurt... the speed of the impact was very scary.

In the second, a raft dive exit went bad and the jumper was slammed by the raft into the aircraft doorframe on exit. She had no warning, and had no way to avoid the blow if she did see it coming. Thankfully her companions were very perceptive and figured out that she was unconscious. One of them deployed for her (she has an AAD).

Yes, avoiding zoo dives is important... but don't fool yourself into thinking that you will see the threat in time.
The choices we make have consequences, for us & for others!

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Truman Sparks will swoop me and pull silver, silly.



But who's gonna land the plane? Haha, what a space cadet I am!

That gives me an idea... I'm going to start a thread asking, "What do you do if the pilot jumps out of the plane?"
Every fight is a food fight if you're a cannibal

Goodness is something to be chosen. When a man cannot choose, he ceases to be a man. - Anthony Burgess

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I really don't think this is a stupid question. If you don't have an AAD you have no options. With one, you still have a chanve.



Do you consider that the AAD can kill you, in a situation where you would have been absolutely fine if you did not have one?

there are always two sides to the coin...
"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

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