Pay the S&TA?

[matthewcline 0]

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One thing that Ive come to understand is that there is no accountability in our sport. Who enforces the rules? Who can pull a substandard instructors rating?The BOD and they have. Who can ground a jumper, enforcable nation wide? Who can fine, punish, discipline, etc?The BOD and they have. No one. It only truly happens when lawyers or the FAA get involved. The BOD has a list of folks they have had to discipline in the history of the sport.

In just about every system that I can think of there is some type of check and balance in place. In skydiving the people that are both the check and balance are the DZOs. They are free to do as they please or as they dont please. They have an obvious conflict of interest, which is the flaw of the system.

Im not saying that they are bad people - hell, several are my friends. But as long as it remains we will continue to get what we already have.

No one wants to be the bad guy and no one wants to be disliked. But in order to reprimand those that need it thats exactly what must happen.

Its a very sad state of affairs. And unfortunately, thats exactly the way some of us want it.

An Instructors first concern is student safety.
So, start being safe, first!!!

[Deisel 35]

Yes the BOD provides some discipline but they are no where near responsive enough to matter. I have to wonder just how many complaints have to make it back to USPA for them to take action. And they certainly havent done much to deal with irresponsible canopy flight. Yes - they are making an effort but it comes down to the folks on the DZ. There has to be someone on the scene who's only concern is safety. But also has the ability to take action when someone isnt safe, regardless of their DZ status.

The brave may not live forever, but the timid never live at all.

[matthewcline 0]

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Yes the BOD provides some discipline but they are no where near responsive enough to matter. I have to wonder just how many complaints have to make it back to USPA for them to take action. And they certainly havent done much to deal with irresponsible canopy flight. Yes - they are making an effort but it comes down to the folks on the DZ. There has to be someone on the scene who's only concern is safety. But also has the ability to take action when someone isnt safe, regardless of their DZ status.

It starts with You!

Matt

An Instructors first concern is student safety.
So, start being safe, first!!!

[Deisel 35]

I do not have the ability to ground anyone or pull a rating. Hell, I cant correct a coach that isn't willing to listen. Sure, people skills come into play and persuasion will work but it only goes so far.

It starts (and ends) with the DZO. And once the DZO gives em' a good talkin' to, but needs a camrea flyer for the next load, now what?

The brave may not live forever, but the timid never live at all.

[riggerpaul 1]

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I do not have the ability to ground anyone or pull a rating. Hell, I cant correct a coach that isn't willing to listen. Sure, people skills come into play and persuasion will work but it only goes so far.

It starts (and ends) with the DZO. And once the DZO gives em' a good talkin' to, but needs a camrea flyer for the next load, now what?

The DZO can't do anything particular about a rating either.

Contact your RD or S&TA.

If they agree with you, then they can initiate action.

If you think the S&TA is in the DZO's pocket, go direct to the RD.

[matthewcline 0]

No. it starts with the individual Skydiver (the YOU's).

Set a good example.
Speak up when you see some one endangering them self or others.
Enlist, you and their, friends to help if they don't listen.
Take your concern to the Staff.
Take your concern to the DZO.
Then if all else fails take it to an Independent S&TA or your RD.

Don't be a defeatist.

Matt

An Instructors first concern is student safety.
So, start being safe, first!!!

[Deisel 35]

Thanks, Matt for that proper bit of motivation. I really do need to get a refill of optimism - it's been a long couple of weeks bro.

D

The brave may not live forever, but the timid never live at all.

[mjosparky 3]

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No. it starts with the individual Skydiver (the YOU's).

Set a good example.
Speak up when you see some one endangering them self or others.
Enlist, you and their, friends to help if they don't listen.
Take your concern to the Staff.
Take your concern to the DZO.
Then if all else fails take it to an Independent S&TA or your RD.

Don't be a defeatist.

Matt

Matt, in 30 years I tried all of your recommendation including serving as S&TA for 2 years and sat on the Safety committee of Perris when was “Perris Valley Skydiving Society”. The one time I got any support from any of the mentioned individuals was from Pat Moorehead who appointed me to S&TA. Any concern I had Pat would take the time to listen and always gave a well thought out and appropriate response. While it was not always what I wanted to hear he was never wishy washy about it.
Put in the final analysis it is only the DZO can make a change. Any reprehensive of USPA regardless of their position can not make an enforceable decision unless the DZO agrees to enforce it.
For the present situation with CC the DZO is the only one that can make a difference.

Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[mjosparky 3]

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The DZO can't do anything particular about a rating either.

He can quit using him as an instructor if he is out of line.

I

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f you think the S&TA is in the DZO's pocket, go direct to the RD.

Report the S&TA to the person how appointed him to the position against USPA recommendations? Yea I sure that will work.

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A. Safety & Training Advisors

1. The regional director appoints S&TAs and forwards the appointments to headquarters for processing.

a. The appointments should be made in consultation with the drop zone owneroperator,
while recognizing that the advisor is a representative of USPA, not the drop zone.

b. The appointment of a DZ owner, operator or employee as the S&TA should
occur only if another suitable candidate is not available.

---

It seems that half the DZO’s or their representative are the S&TA and we both know what a conflict of interest that is.

Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[riggerpaul 1]

Quote

Quote

The DZO can't do anything particular about a rating either.

He can quit using him as an instructor if he is out of line.

I

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f you think the S&TA is in the DZO's pocket, go direct to the RD.

Report the S&TA to the person how appointed him to the position against USPA recommendations? Yea I sure that will work.

---

A. Safety & Training Advisors

1. The regional director appoints S&TAs and forwards the appointments to headquarters for processing.

a. The appointments should be made in consultation with the drop zone owneroperator,
while recognizing that the advisor is a representative of USPA, not the drop zone.

b. The appointment of a DZ owner, operator or employee as the S&TA should
occur only if another suitable candidate is not available.

---

It seems that half the DZO’s or their representative are the S&TA and we both know what a conflict of interest that is.

Sparky

When I said go to the RD, I did not mean with the information about the S&TA being in the DZO's pocket, I meant go to the RD with the information about the errant rating holder.

But, sure, your points are totally valid.

USPA documents aside, it is my experience that the DZO does the nominating, and the RD does the accepting or rejecting.

(Though maybe that difference is insignificant.)

I'd hope that the RD would be sufficiently interested in safety that he'd look into it.

But, I'll also admit that such is less likely if the RD is at the same dz. While it is hopefully usually an advantage to having him close, this is a clear disadvantage.

With regard to the conflict of interest, maybe we are doomed in all this. It seems likely that any rating holder at any dz is likely to have a closer relationship with the DZO than some random sport jumper. It the rating holder wants to use his rating, that simply MUST be true. So if the USPA wants S&TAs to hold ratings, it seems the conflict of interest is unavoidable. The best we can hope for is that the appointee takes it seriously enough to provide at least some "back pressure" in the interest of safety. And since we've all admitted that the final say in all matters really rests with the DZO, judicious back pressure is all that can ever really happen.