sarahh 0 #1 April 20, 2011 seriously, all the debating and ragging on individuals and companiesis just getting WAY beyond reason. I understand that no one is going to have a perfect reputation in this sport, but when it comes to people bad mouthing someone they have never met and have no experience with, what gives? In a rather scandalous move, i got my AFF rating through Bram Clement, in my opinion one of the best in the country. I was ridiculed by a lot of the staff at my home DZ, many of whom have never met Bram or Elly. But that didn't stop people rubbishing me or him or skydive ratings. No one is perfect!!! maybe you don't agree with other people's business practise, but what gives you the right to be vicious and spiteful and hateful? Yes, i have made mistakes as an instructor. Hasn't everyone? Well... YES! i have been on the planes when people with THOUSANDS of jumps have made mistakes.. .that's why we have each other for support and friendship and help. The purpose of experienced instructors and S&TA's is to provide support to new instructors and staff members to make this sport SAFER... what happens when it breaks down? people get hurt and killed. Maybe you don't agree with me... maybe you do... personally, i could care less about your opinion... i am doing my best and will continue to do so. I LOVE the sport, i want everyone to love the sport. But when you get past the big eye veneer you realise most of the DZ's out there are a high school. And no one is willing to take the higher ground.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnnyMarko 1 #2 April 20, 2011 Maybe I'm trapped in my small DZ bubble, but my short career in skydiving has been almost drama free. Sure, there's one or two people at the DZ that there could be some animosity between us, but it always stays civil. And sure, one could argue I'm not experiencing all that skydiving has to offer. I've never jumped anything but a Cessna, never done more than a 5-way, never been above 11K, etc, but I'm happy with where I'm at. I'm perfectly fine having drama free weekends at a small DZ, jumping from 10.5, flying a 190, packing 10+ tandems and maybe not getting on a load, but guess what? I'm perfectly happy with it all and frankly, don't feel the need to go to a boogie or big DZ just yet. And because I don't feel comfortable doing it (yet), it's probably a good thing since my mind/experience level isn't there. Anyone see a problem with this? Anyone else feel that way? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 6 #3 April 20, 2011 "...when it comes to people bad mouthing someone they have never met and have no experience with, what gives?" "personally, i could care less about your opinion... " Quote So what you saying is my opinion is worthless...even though you've never met or have any experience with me. Washing the walls with Windex ! ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
labrys 0 #4 April 20, 2011 Quote So what you saying is my opinion is worthless...even though you've never met or have any experience with me. Nope... the OP said they could care less, which means they have some amount of care > zero. Therefore, they care! Owned by Remi #? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sarahh 0 #5 April 21, 2011 lol.. you guys.. so nit picky :) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Deisel 35 #6 April 21, 2011 2 things; 1) It only goes downhill if we let it. 2) I dont need to meet someone to have an opinion of their work.The brave may not live forever, but the timid never live at all. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnMitchell 14 #7 April 21, 2011 Sounds like you're having a rough week. Okay, you got your rating. Have you had some on the job trouble at your DZ? Yes, we all make mistakes, and are embarrassed by it hopefully. Is there someone who could mentor you along as you gain experience. I was lucky to have some great ones when I started out. It was a huge help. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
meloo09 0 #8 April 21, 2011 It blows me away that anyone could have something bad to say about Bram or Elly. Zhills is my home DZ and I got my rating in november and Bram has always been helpful with any questions I've had well beyond the end of the course. And Elly?!?!?! She's one of the sweetest people I know! I hate to hear anyone ripping or trashing other skydivers but it unfortunately happens and this sport is far from the only one to experience it. So I take it upon myself to lift others up and make meaningful connections with those that I cross paths with. With student retention at a pitiful level I think if we stepped back and saw the way we looked bickering and carrying on in front of new jumpers then we might understand why some don't want to remain at that DZ or in this sport. Muff brother Johnny Gates said it best, Have fun and remember to love each other. That's what we need to bring back into this sport!! Sorry for ranting:)What you do speaks so loud, I cannot hear what you say. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rugby82 0 #9 April 21, 2011 Why must everything always be perfect. Humans aren't made to be perfect, they make mistakes. The world wouldn't be any fun if everyone was perfect. To add to this, humans learn more from their mistakes than they learn from things that go according to the book. Why then do we think that skydiving works in another way then life? Maybe because it's an Alpha-male world where they think it's fun to ridicule people and they think that they are all the best in the world and never make mistakes. I can tell you one thing. All the arrogant and cocky, so called skygods, skydivers made the same mistake at one point. They now just feel to good to give in to this because this seems to be the way to act in this sport. I personally made my bunch of mistakes which all turned out allright and I'm happy to share those with the students I teach because we can learn more from other peoples mistakes then from arrogant behaviour and trashing less experienced skydivers. Knowledge is the way to go and this will keep the sport alive. Not sharing your knowledge is the way to let this sport go downhill. Like Frank Zappa once quoted: "The mind is like a parachute - it works only when it is open.". These people's minds aren't open. If we want to advance in this sport more minds need to be open. Maybe my thoughts are different then others because I've got a background in Psychology but this is the way I see it.Blue skies! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
davelepka 4 #10 April 21, 2011 Quote i got my AFF rating through Bram Clement, in my opinion one of the best in the country. I was ridiculed by a lot of the staff at my home DZ, many of whom have never met Bram or Elly. But that didn't stop people rubbishing me or him or skydive ratings Right there you know that the people making the comments don't know squat. Bram and Elly are both world class (literally) instructors. I have worked with both of them, and never saw either make a mistake, to include their attitudes and the way they interacted with the other instructors. Very professional, above board, and extremely reliable. Like all things in life, consider the source. What kind of instructor would ridicule a newly minted instructor, let alone one they will be working with in the future. It's just dumb, and at least now you know the caliber of person you're dealing with. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ordie1 0 #11 April 21, 2011 QuoteWhy must everything always be perfect. Humans aren't made to be perfect, they make mistakes. The world wouldn't be any fun if everyone was perfect. To add to this, humans learn more from their mistakes than they learn from things that go according to the book. The scary ones are the people who think everyone else is making the mistakes. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Skydivesg 6 #12 April 22, 2011 Obviously you've been scorned. And we all know that saying. But by coming on an internet forum and airing your laundry, you've just perpetuated that of whomever pissed you off at your local DZ. Had you not mentioned it here, I would never had known that someone dislikes the way Bram and Ellie work. While what they said may have gotten aroundyour DZ, you personally have just drug their name through the proverbial mud for the whole DZ.com world to see. If you really care about Bram and Ellie you may want to figure out another way to vent. I personally think they do an awesome job. My son got his ratings through them and he seems to be doing OK.Be the canopy pilot you want that other guy to be. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Niki1 1 #13 April 22, 2011 Quote*** Like all things in life, consider the source. What kind of instructor would ridicule a newly minted instructor, let alone one they will be working with in the future. It's just dumb, and at least now you know the caliber of person you're dealing with. A philosophical question: Is it an insult if an idiot calls you stupid? Like the above, consider the source. Some things are not worthy of a responce. The ranting idiots will eventually shoot themselves in the foot and be shown for the kind of person they are. That may not happen as soon as you would like but the truth will come out. Take the high road and don't let the bastards get you down.Most of the things worth doing in the world had been declared impossilbe before they were done. Louis D Brandeis Where are we going and why are we in this basket? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites sarahh 0 #14 April 22, 2011 my point was exactly that they do a great job. no need to get your knickers in a twist lol. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Skydivesg 6 #15 April 22, 2011 From my perspective, it's someone else's panties that are in a bunch. I stand by my post.Be the canopy pilot you want that other guy to be. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites paulcrw 0 #16 April 22, 2011 Quote Zhills is my home DZ and I got my rating in november Someone seriously gave you an AFF rating when you have 300 jumps over 7 years? "loving each other" is not a good antidote to the dying stuff that's happening. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites DeNReN 0 #17 April 22, 2011 Quote Quote Zhills is my home DZ and I got my rating in november Someone seriously gave you an AFF rating when you have 300 jumps over 7 years? Reading comprehension level a little on the low side?? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites deltron80 0 #18 April 22, 2011 I just bought a new rig so for me it's going uphill. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites godfrog 2 #19 April 22, 2011 sarahh, maybe it is because people hold themselves in a higher status and therefore just know better then everyone else so they can do and say what they want because they are better and can do no wrong! Ignore them and let your personal experiences with people guide you!Experience is a difficult teacher, she gives you the test first and the lesson afterward Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites airtwardo 6 #20 April 22, 2011 The ranting idiots will eventually shoot themselves in the foot and be shown for the kind of person they are. Quote ~Time Wounds All Heels! ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites meloo09 0 #21 April 23, 2011 I received my coach rating not AFF, sorry for not specifying. "Dying stuff"? Sorry I don't really catch your drift on that one. What I was trying to get across was that we'll get a lot further with students by creating a positive and uplifting atmosphere. Should people be called out and corrected for their mistakes??? Abso-freakin-lutey!! But bashing others and petty gossip won't take us very far.What you do speaks so loud, I cannot hear what you say. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites peregrinerose 0 #22 April 23, 2011 Ummm, just a crazy thought, but if you don't care about other peoples' opinions, why are you ranting about other peoples' opinions? Do or do not, there is no try -Yoda Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites sarahh 0 #23 April 25, 2011 QuoteUmmm, just a crazy thought, but if you don't care about other peoples' opinions, why are you ranting about other peoples' opinions? it's the pissy nonsensical rants that i have no time for. And not caring for an idiot's POV doesn't meant i can't have an opinion. i never said people weren't allowed to have an opinion, just that i could care less for them. :) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites sarahh 0 #24 April 25, 2011 and thanks to all for the kind words. just would be nice if we could look at someone and judge based on their merit and personality rather than the rumor mill, KWIM? LOVE that people in the sport are mostly good people who want to see it go forward with integrity Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
Skydivesg 6 #12 April 22, 2011 Obviously you've been scorned. And we all know that saying. But by coming on an internet forum and airing your laundry, you've just perpetuated that of whomever pissed you off at your local DZ. Had you not mentioned it here, I would never had known that someone dislikes the way Bram and Ellie work. While what they said may have gotten aroundyour DZ, you personally have just drug their name through the proverbial mud for the whole DZ.com world to see. If you really care about Bram and Ellie you may want to figure out another way to vent. I personally think they do an awesome job. My son got his ratings through them and he seems to be doing OK.Be the canopy pilot you want that other guy to be. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Niki1 1 #13 April 22, 2011 Quote*** Like all things in life, consider the source. What kind of instructor would ridicule a newly minted instructor, let alone one they will be working with in the future. It's just dumb, and at least now you know the caliber of person you're dealing with. A philosophical question: Is it an insult if an idiot calls you stupid? Like the above, consider the source. Some things are not worthy of a responce. The ranting idiots will eventually shoot themselves in the foot and be shown for the kind of person they are. That may not happen as soon as you would like but the truth will come out. Take the high road and don't let the bastards get you down.Most of the things worth doing in the world had been declared impossilbe before they were done. Louis D Brandeis Where are we going and why are we in this basket? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sarahh 0 #14 April 22, 2011 my point was exactly that they do a great job. no need to get your knickers in a twist lol. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skydivesg 6 #15 April 22, 2011 From my perspective, it's someone else's panties that are in a bunch. I stand by my post.Be the canopy pilot you want that other guy to be. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
paulcrw 0 #16 April 22, 2011 Quote Zhills is my home DZ and I got my rating in november Someone seriously gave you an AFF rating when you have 300 jumps over 7 years? "loving each other" is not a good antidote to the dying stuff that's happening. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DeNReN 0 #17 April 22, 2011 Quote Quote Zhills is my home DZ and I got my rating in november Someone seriously gave you an AFF rating when you have 300 jumps over 7 years? Reading comprehension level a little on the low side?? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
deltron80 0 #18 April 22, 2011 I just bought a new rig so for me it's going uphill. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
godfrog 2 #19 April 22, 2011 sarahh, maybe it is because people hold themselves in a higher status and therefore just know better then everyone else so they can do and say what they want because they are better and can do no wrong! Ignore them and let your personal experiences with people guide you!Experience is a difficult teacher, she gives you the test first and the lesson afterward Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 6 #20 April 22, 2011 The ranting idiots will eventually shoot themselves in the foot and be shown for the kind of person they are. Quote ~Time Wounds All Heels! ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
meloo09 0 #21 April 23, 2011 I received my coach rating not AFF, sorry for not specifying. "Dying stuff"? Sorry I don't really catch your drift on that one. What I was trying to get across was that we'll get a lot further with students by creating a positive and uplifting atmosphere. Should people be called out and corrected for their mistakes??? Abso-freakin-lutey!! But bashing others and petty gossip won't take us very far.What you do speaks so loud, I cannot hear what you say. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peregrinerose 0 #22 April 23, 2011 Ummm, just a crazy thought, but if you don't care about other peoples' opinions, why are you ranting about other peoples' opinions? Do or do not, there is no try -Yoda Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sarahh 0 #23 April 25, 2011 QuoteUmmm, just a crazy thought, but if you don't care about other peoples' opinions, why are you ranting about other peoples' opinions? it's the pissy nonsensical rants that i have no time for. And not caring for an idiot's POV doesn't meant i can't have an opinion. i never said people weren't allowed to have an opinion, just that i could care less for them. :) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sarahh 0 #24 April 25, 2011 and thanks to all for the kind words. just would be nice if we could look at someone and judge based on their merit and personality rather than the rumor mill, KWIM? LOVE that people in the sport are mostly good people who want to see it go forward with integrity Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
