stratostar 5 #126 February 4, 2010 There is more to it then just one report. And just showing up to make a few jumps won't cut it, your going to have to be a commercial operator. As you and I know, your "events" are a commercial operation! You will need to find and read the Min. Standards for the airports you seek to use, some airport sponsors will have them on the city/county websites, po dunk UsA you may need to pay a personal visit to get them. You also need to understand, most airport sponsors always try to use Min. standards in violation of 5190 150-6 &-7 or grant assurances #22 & 23. when they don't want you there. You'll see in case after case, the words used are the same over all. For someone who runs large commercial operations as events, I'm sure Mr. Ottinger would be more then happy help you understand clearly how your personal interests and the FAR's and grant funding, would or would not all jive.you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CSpenceFLY 1 #127 February 4, 2010 Well, I hope not to need to move the boogie for a while but would be worth the read. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stratostar 5 #128 February 4, 2010 It's all worth knowing, and more so in your case as a " commercial operator" and a skydiver/ pilot.you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
johndh1 0 #129 February 4, 2010 QuoteThere are a few airports I would like to jump at just to make a point. I'll bet, and I second that; however, I won't need to make Pell City one of them to prove the point. The fact is, skydiving was never banned at the airport. There have been plenty of jumps made there the past few years. Skydiving has been a part of that airport for a long time, and will continue to be, I'm sure of it.Roll Tide Roll Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BillyVance 34 #130 February 4, 2010 Quote Quote There are a few airports I would like to jump at just to make a point. I'll bet, and I second that; however, I won't need to make Pell City one of them to prove the point. The fact is, skydiving was never banned at the airport. There have been plenty of jumps made there the past few years. Skydiving has been a part of that airport for a long time, and will continue to be, I'm sure of it. Of course. Our old DZO (before Skyride) still keeps a hangar there and we still use the airport for demo-related operations. "Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BillyVance 34 #131 February 4, 2010 Quote Quote Quote Skydiving has been a part of that airport for a long time, and will continue to be, I'm sure of it. Of course. Our old DZO (before Skyride) still keeps a hangar there and we still use the airport for demo-related operations. Come to think of it, I need to ask her about getting any jumps out of the police chief's personal helicopter. "Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CSpenceFLY 1 #132 February 6, 2010 I heard the other day that they either have been or are going to be thrown from their airport in Pa. also Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The_Don 0 #133 February 7, 2010 If this happens, it will be interesting to see where the staff of ASC ends up. Only so many Dropzones in GA. I am NOT being loud. I'm being enthusiastic! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BillyVance 34 #134 February 19, 2010 Well, I finally got a copy of the meeting minutes from the Polk County Commission. Since the PDF file is too large to attach here, I've taken a screen shot of just the relevant portion of the 4-page report... Not much to say here, except it was a unanimous vote. ETA: Question, how does John Mann relate to ASC? I'm assuming he is the FBO for the airport?"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stratostar 5 #135 February 19, 2010 Based on the text about the request for money & fuel tank for jet A, I would say yes Mr. Mann is the FBO owner. The denial for Jet A has two meanings. As said once before some of you may want to start reading and understanding "through the fence". (hint) Not because you ARE a "through the fence" operator, BUT because more then likely this airport sponsor is going to start making such claims as ONE reason for denial of airport access to "other skydivers". (a common claim seen under the right conditions) This airport sponsor may? have a legal right to boot off ASC, the minutes of the meeting cite no facts for the lease denial. This sponsor may or may not be in violation of grant assurances. We would need more info to have a clear idea. While it's clear to most of the skydiving industry ASC's owners are low class white trash con men who give the sport a black eye by ripping off a lot of people. (fact) However they still have industry support for a lot of BIG dz's. With that aside, you as a skydiver need to ask yourself, 1. Do I want to see ASC kicked off even if violations of grant assurances are used to get rid of them, and the airport sponsor gets away with on the FAA level? or 2. I only want to see ASC kicked off under legal means without any violations of the grant assurances and if grant assurances are in fact being violated under the grant assurances by the airport sponsor, I do not believe they should get away with it and the FAA will need to be involved to settle the matter, regardless of my personal feelings towards ASC and it's owners business model. If you answer #1, well then you have no room to bitch when your own DZ starts getting shut down and kicked off in violation of federal law. Just food for thought.you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BillyVance 34 #136 February 19, 2010 Like I said before, I hope Polk County did their homework and followed proper procedure."Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BillyVance 34 #137 March 12, 2010 The latest.... well it is about a week old: http://www.cedartownstd.com/view/full_story/6554653/article-Commissioners-will-not-hear-petitions-to-keep-skydiving-at-airport? Read through it and make of it what you will. The way I see it, they can still use the airport but must conduct their private enterprise on private property, kind of like The Farm is doing."Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerpaul 1 #138 March 12, 2010 QuoteThe latest.... well it is about a week old: http://www.cedartownstd.com/view/full_story/6554653/article-Commissioners-will-not-hear-petitions-to-keep-skydiving-at-airport? Read through it and make of it what you will. The way I see it, they can still use the airport but must conduct their private enterprise on private property, kind of like The Farm is doing. Interesting article. Do you know if there are any FBOs on the airport? Fuel concessions? Repair shops? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hallux 0 #139 March 12, 2010 no private business on public airport???? Its a aeronautical business and therefore has a place on the airport. The FAA will have a field day with those statements! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
alabamaskydiver 0 #140 March 12, 2010 Quoteno private business on public airport???? Its a aeronautical business and therefore has a place on the airport. The FAA will have a field day with those statements! Did you get ALL those stickers removed yet? If not, maybe you should attend to that before you worry yourself with this issue. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hallux 0 #141 March 12, 2010 LMAO I assure you this issue is the last thing i will worry myself with. YOu still hung up on stickers? LOL! are you bent on turning this thread into personal attacks too? Such a child Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
alabamaskydiver 0 #142 March 12, 2010 QuoteLMAO I assure you this issue is the last thing i will worry myself with. YOu still hung up on stickers? LOL! are you bent on turning this thread into personal attacks too? Such a child No, that was not a personal attack! I did not call you any names or anything like the such. I simply asked if you got all those stickers removed yet. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hallux 0 #143 March 12, 2010 why do you think thats my job? Since when do fun jumpers at a DZ have to do work like that? I dont put any up and I dont take any down but once again what does that have to do with lease agreements on federally funded airports? Any more brain busters Mr. off topic guy? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
futuredivot 0 #144 March 12, 2010 Quoteno private business on public airport???? Its a aeronautical business and therefore has a place on the airport. The FAA will have a field day with those statements! The feds probably won't get involved. They would only be interested in equal access, and access isn't being denied........and I've seen enough DZ's get screwed off of airports under shady circumstances to think the USPA would be of any help. Do the sport a favor, though. If you end up having to leave the airport, show grace, civility and maturity. Fucking shit up and childish pranks only makes it difficult to ever get a DZ considered as a tenant in the future.You are only as strong as the prey you devour Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BillyVance 34 #145 March 12, 2010 Quote Quote no private business on public airport???? Its a aeronautical business and therefore has a place on the airport. The FAA will have a field day with those statements! The feds probably won't get involved. They would only be interested in equal access, and access isn't being denied........and I've seen enough DZ's get screwed off of airports under shady circumstances to think the USPA would be of any help. Do the sport a favor, though. If you end up having to leave the airport, show grace, civility and maturity. Fucking shit up and childish pranks only makes it difficult to ever get a DZ considered as a tenant in the future. Kind of like what happened at Pell City, Prattville and Clarksville? "Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
buff 0 #146 March 12, 2010 Pissing contest aside, QuoteHe pointed out that the group is operating a private enterprise on public property. “How can we tell another taxpayer who wants to open a business on county owned property no when we already have someone doing it?” he asked. Thaxton pointed out that public land should not be used for private business. “We are not running the skydivers out of the county," he said. “They can still do everything they are now doing but on property they own. It is a public airport and they can still use it for their jumps." Commissioner Sandra Galloway said the “said amount of money the county is receiving” from Atlanta Skydive Center would be less than $9,000 each year. This doesn't make sense in light of the fact that any airport built with public funds has some sort of private enterprise operating on it. Take ATL, built with public money and every airline and concession upon the airport is a private enterprise. I'm sure that the FBO at Cedartown is not some guy on the city payroll. They should have just raised the lease to a premium and part of the profits or something without making stupid statements on the recordIt's called the Hillbilly Hop N Pop dude. If you're gonna be stupid, you better be tough. That's fucked up. Watermelons do not grow on trees! ~Skymama Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
futuredivot 0 #147 March 12, 2010 Quoteany airport built with public funds Anytime you start with words like any never or all there's a good chance that you're wrong. I know bunches of airports that don't have private businesses on them. A ton of FBOs are city or county (or Parish) operated.You are only as strong as the prey you devour Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stratostar 5 #148 March 12, 2010 Maybe & maybe not, define "field day" They clearly state the board is not saying they can't jump on at/on the airport, they are saying they won't lease them space. All airports developed with federal funding is required under contract to make the airport open to the public, of the people, by the people, for the people. Any approved activty or operator is allowed to use. lease airport property. Airport property developed with federal funding monies is required to make avilable to aviation use. In other words the airport sponsor can't buy up all the land around the airport with federal funding and the lease it all to a farmer and tell an aviation business like an S.A.S.O. or F.B.O. or Repair shop, paint shop, flight school, banner towing, crop dusting, aerial photography companies they can not locate and operate in the airport property. They however are not required to lease you jack shit! Buying the plot of land next door and putting in an opening so you can taxi onto the airport to takeoff is considered a "hole in the fence" operator, the FAA strongly advises airport sponsors to to not allow such operators because it "encumbers" the airport land that was paid for with tax payers money and any such granting of "hole in the fence" will be grounds to be denied additonal funding request. You can read all bout it at http://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/Order/5190_6b.pdfyou can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DiverMike 5 #149 March 12, 2010 Read a 691 page government document? I think I'll wait for the movie. For the same reason I jump off a perfectly good diving board. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stratostar 5 #150 March 12, 2010 QuoteRead a 691 page government document? I think I'll wait for the movie. It's that very kind of attitude with pilots, FBO's and airport advisory boards that leads to legal issues and hassle of approved users by local goverment, you being a jumper who currently jumps on a federal funded airport you might try to educate yourself before Start wears out their welcome of other airport users in Middletown , it only takes one asshole to cause your DZ problems with the uneducated airport sponsor. (airport board & city leaders) The try reading chapters. Chapter 4 - Federal Grant Obligations and Responsibilities Chapter 5 - Complaint Resolution Chapter 8 - Exclusive Rights Chapter 9 - Unjust Discrimination between Aeronautical Users Chapter 10 - Reasonable Commercial Minimum Standards Chapter 12 - Review of Aeronautical Lease Agreementsyou can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
