"Possibility of 2nd sky-diving company in DeLand creates turbulence "

[normiss 620]

and some prefer to twist the truth to their liking.

[JohnRich 4]

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CALLING YOU FOR HAVING THE TRUE??? ARE YOU OUT OF MIND!!! Since the beginning you're NEVER said the true!!! You are accuse the wrong person because the FAA found out YOU WAS FLIYNG ILLEGALLY, without commercial licences and your medical was due since a long time ago. You think you are a good manenger but you are never do your job when one of your employe rob more than 100 000$. Who paid for that trial? The 3 owners of the compagny (yes that include Billy Richard) and your not one of them!!! At that moment the only person who make money on the worst friendly drop zone it's you. I hope you will be kick out sone and that drop zone will be what it be FRIENDLY without TROUBLE MACKER AS YOU!!!

So...You just joined us to make that one post...Now if we only knew who it is aimed at...it might make sense!

Here's what she's saying: There seems to be a continuing run of problems at TK's drop zone:

- Aircraft lease problems.
- Hanger ownership problems.
- Flying without a proper license problems.
- Not noticing $100k employee theft problem.

At some point, you start to wonder if all of these don't have drop zone management as the root cause...

I'm not saying that I necessarily agree with that line of reasoning, but I can see the argument, which is what she seems to be making.

It could be argued that with proper legal agreements, attention to FAA licensing, and monitoring of accounting, that none of these would have become sensational issues, and we wouldn't be talking about them here in this forum.

[normiss 620]

There doesn't appear to be any aircraft lease issues - the last company wanted to change the agreement so they were fired and replaced - no problem!
If I understand the hangar details - it goes with the lease of the property from the airport/city. The company that was fired has taken their sweet ass time on getting their property out of it.
TK owned up to the licensing issue - which was a simple misunderstanding anyway.
The theft WAS noticed by the bookkeeper and the authorities were notified at that time.

These would not have become 'sensational issues' had the fired company not cried like a bitch when they were fired.

[Amazon 7]

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CALLING YOU FOR HAVING THE TRUE??? ARE YOU OUT OF MIND!!! Since the beginning you're NEVER said the true!!! You are accuse the wrong person because the FAA found out YOU WAS FLIYNG ILLEGALLY, without commercial licences and your medical was due since a long time ago. You think you are a good manenger but you are never do your job when one of your employe rob more than 100 000$. Who paid for that trial? The 3 owners of the compagny (yes that include Billy Richard) and your not one of them!!! At that moment the only person who make money on the worst friendly drop zone it's you. I hope you will be kick out sone and that drop zone will be what it be FRIENDLY without TROUBLE MACKER AS YOU!!!

If you do not care for any DZ in Florida.. by all means there is always another one just down the road. There really is no need to get your panties all twisted up ... head for one of the 20 or so other DZ's.

You can feel free to leave and go elsewhere when your home DZ up New Yark way is all icy and cold.

Instead I see a hell of a lot of stupid childish vindictive crap coming from a certain group of people.

[skyrider 0]

I read about this in Blue sky mag..

Seems Tk is going from upstanding skydiver respected to Crook,, in many peoples eyes..

He is a member here, be nice to hear from him!

[jsreznor 0]

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Instead I see a hell of a lot of stupid childish vindictive crap coming from a certain group of people.

Sweet hypocrisy! This thread is titled about Deland, but easily turned into an "I hate Billy Richards" rant. In case you missed it, that's where this thread went childish and vindictive.

Now TK was the one who started talking about things happening at his own DZ, which again brings up criticism of how things are run over there.

But it's cool. Blame it on the Ranch people, all four of us who post on dz.com.

[normiss 620]

I think I was the one to bring Z-hills into the thread.
It was and is a fair comparison of what is happening in Deland.
It appears to me that Mr. Richards throws money at you when he's pissed at you.
Given the treatment of TK by the shareholders in the company (including Mr. Richards until he was fired), I'd say they're very happy with his management.

[Ron 7]

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CALLING YOU FOR HAVING THE TRUE??? ARE YOU OUT OF MIND!!! Since the beginning you're NEVER said the true!!!

Hard to follow your post... Are you trying to say "truth"????

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Some just don't care about the truth

You mean things like how Billy thought he had the ability to dictate policy and hold the planes over the DZ's head?

And how without a contract he thinks he should still get his way?

Blame Billy for not having a contract. Blame Billy for getting pissed and trying to create problems... both in Zhills and in DeLand.

Blame TK for flying a plane without the correct license.

Why is it none of the legal issues seem to be falling in Billy's favor? The most logical answer is his position is not as strong as he thinks.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[mjosparky 3]

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Some just don't care about the truth and some just don't care about the troubles....always tow side of story... if some want just the one...SO keep it like that.....No one is a God on that earth

I don’t have a dog in this fight but from where I am sitting you need to step back from the bottle or the pipe. Your posts come across like someone with a third grade education and an ax to grind.

Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[skyrider 0]

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Some just don't care about the truth and some just don't care about the troubles....always tow side of story... if some want just the one...SO keep it like that.....No one is a God on that earth

I don’t have a dog in this fight but from where I am sitting you need to step back from the bottle or the pipe. Your posts come across like someone with a third grade education and an ax to grind.

Sparky

keep in mind, Many here are using online translators, and then there are folks like me, with not many years in school...most of the "hard to figure out", post, come from "translators".....I babble in english!

[captain1976 0]

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CALLING YOU FOR HAVING THE TRUE??? ARE YOU OUT OF MIND!!! Since the beginning you're NEVER said the true!!! You are accuse the wrong person because the FAA found out YOU WAS FLIYNG ILLEGALLY, without commercial licences and your medical was due since a long time ago. You think you are a good manenger but you are never do your job when one of your employe rob more than 100 000$. Who paid for that trial? The 3 owners of the compagny (yes that include Billy Richard) and your not one of them!!! At that moment the only person who make money on the worst friendly drop zone it's you. I hope you will be kick out sone and that drop zone will be what it be FRIENDLY without TROUBLE MACKER AS YOU!!!

TK Carries a Commercial Multi Certificate. In most Countries that license covers single-engine commercial operation as well.

In the US they make it an additional requirement.

Remember, we are dealaing with the US Government here. More rating requirements require more examiners (Civil Servants).

It is and never was a safety issue!

You live more in the few minutes of skydiving than many people live in their lifetime

[mjosparky 3]

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Some just don't care about the truth and some just don't care about the troubles....always tow side of story... if some want just the one...SO keep it like that.....No one is a God on that earth

I don’t have a dog in this fight but from where I am sitting you need to step back from the bottle or the pipe. Your posts come across like someone with a third grade education and an ax to grind.

Sparky

keep in mind, Many here are using online translators, and then there are folks like me, with not many years in school...most of the "hard to figure out", post, come from "translators".....I babble in english!

Joined in 2008, first post with no profile information. Something in making my BS meter go off. A gloves off in your face first post just rings of strong personal involvement with an agenda.

Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[Amazon 7]

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Some just don't care about the truth and some just don't care about the troubles....always tow side of story... if some want just the one...SO keep it like that.....No one is a God on that earth

I don’t have a dog in this fight but from where I am sitting you need to step back from the bottle or the pipe. Your posts come across like someone with a third grade education and an ax to grind.

Sparky

keep in mind, Many here are using online translators, and then there are folks like me, with not many years in school...most of the "hard to figure out", post, come from "translators".....I babble in english!

Joined in 2008, first post with no profile information. Something in making my BS meter go off. A gloves off in your face first post just rings of strong personal involvement with an agenda.

Sparky

DING DING DING

We have a winner.

Why are those from the Ranch in New York... so completely and utterly off the wall ranting about DZ's in Florida ... Could it be ... the inability to see the forest for the palm trees???

[danielcroft 2]

I find it really interesting that so many of the old guard are so keen to shoot Billy down for not having contracts and what not but are some of the first to complain so bitterly about skydiving turning into an industry and the loss of the old ways. Billy was running this the old way, that's how he is.

Billy is a part owner of the DZ, he can't be "fired" as someone put it earlier. Free Fall Express is the company that was providing aircraft and staff to Skydive City, TK let them go over a pricing dispute. Billy owns a large stake in Skydive City and is allegedly not consulted and is not receiving the cash from the business that he's due.

For the record, all the details I've posted here about what's going on come from the media and this site, like any of you (except TK of course). This is a business dispute that has two sides and two strong willed people on either side. Painting one person as purely wrong is just myopic.

It's very easy for everyone here to paint Billy as purely the villain and TK as the victim because TK posts here, he's one of "us" and Billy doesn't have a great reputation amongst some people. Any adult reading this forum should know that life isn't that simple.

You might wonder why Ranch Hands are defending Billy. Maybe you guys don't really care. It's nice to have a bad guy isn't it...

[normiss 620]

I've never heard he wasn't getting his cut of the business.
I seriously doubt that considering he has lost all legal efforts to date.
Where did you get that from?

[danielcroft 2]

The article I posted a few pages back.

I guess my posts are generally so lame that people are blocking them out...

[Amazon 7]

So basically when your buddy gets a burr in his knickers because another DZ in Florida provides airplanes to Z Hiils .. his first thought is to shit on them too and try to open another DZ operation on the airport they use ... nope.. no vindictiveness there at all.

[normiss 620]

Nah - I just missed it in the article.

But, again, I seriously doubt that part of the story.
Otherwise he would most assuredly won a partial injunction until those monies were paid. Ya think?


I LOVE the reporter's name!!!

[kuai43 7]

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CALLING YOU FOR HAVING THE TRUE??? ARE YOU OUT OF MIND!!! Since the beginning you're NEVER said the true!!! You are accuse the wrong person because the FAA found out YOU WAS FLIYNG ILLEGALLY, without commercial licences and your medical was due since a long time ago. You think you are a good manenger but you are never do your job when one of your employe rob more than 100 000$. Who paid for that trial? The 3 owners of the compagny (yes that include Billy Richard) and your not one of them!!! At that moment the only person who make money on the worst friendly drop zone it's you. I hope you will be kick out sone and that drop zone will be what it be FRIENDLY without TROUBLE MACKER AS YOU!!!

So...You just joined us to make that one post...Now if we only knew who it is aimed at...it might make sense!

It helps if it's read with a Jamaican accent.

Every fight is a food fight if you're a cannibal

Goodness is something to be chosen. When a man cannot choose, he ceases to be a man. - Anthony Burgess

[skyrider 0]

Good point Mawn!

[DiverMike 5]

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It is and never was a safety issue!

I can't completely agree with that statement. Not complying with FAA regulations (even the bullshit ones) shows a lack of knowledge or professionalism. If you don't have the ticket for that plane - don't fly it. (Especially for hire).

For the non-pilots out there, it is similiar to driving with an expired license. It is an indication that the driver isn't aware of the basic regulations or chooses to disregard them. Would you call that driver a 'safe driver'? I would not, especially if I were paying that driver to drive me. What other basic regulations is he unaware of or disregarding?

For the same reason I jump off a perfectly good diving board.

[Ron 7]

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I find it really interesting that so many of the old guard are so keen to shoot Billy down for not having contracts

No one is shooting him down for not having a contract. We are saying that without a contract he cannot force an issue that he only *thinks* exists.

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Billy is a part owner of the DZ, he can't be "fired" as someone put it earlier. Free Fall Express is the company that was providing aircraft and staff to Skydive City, TK let them go over a pricing dispute.

Fine, TK fired Freefall Express. Billy still *thinks* that he (as owner of Freefall Express) has a right to be the sole provider of aircraft for SDC.... Even though there is no contract that states that. The legal proceedings have proven that to be false.

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Billy owns a large stake in Skydive City and is allegedly not consulted and is not receiving the cash from the business that he's due.

Facts to back that claim up? The judges seem to disagree. He may be missing the income from the FFE part, but TK and the other owners have the right to find a better deal to do what is best for the DZ.

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This is a business dispute that has two sides and two strong willed people on either side. Painting one person as purely wrong is just myopic.

Did Billy try to start a DZ on Zhills as revenge? Did he then try to start a DZ in DeLand as revenge? Did he bring a lawsuit against TK's aircraft business?

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Billy doesn't have a great reputation amongst some people

You ever wonder why that is? It is actions like these.

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You might wonder why Ranch Hands are defending Billy

Because they like him since he treats them well. Not a hard concept t grasp. Ever wonder why the Zhills folks are defending TK? Same reasons.

Now... As a former Zhills person I can easily state that Billy made it quite clear that Zhills was not his priority. I can remember at least TWICE where I saw the Otter fly off on a weekend to fly somewhere and leaving Zhills with NO aircraft whatsoever.

Here are the FACTS:

* Billy thought he had an exclusive agreement with SDC for FFE to be the sole aircraft provider.

* This "Agreement" was not in writing.

* On several occasions FFE left Zhills with ZERO aircraft.

* FFE tried to renegotiate the "contract" and SDC decided to go with another vendor.

So:
1. There is no contract

2. FFE leaving Zhills without aircraft on more than one occasion would have put them in violation of an exclusive use contract.

3. Renegotiating the 'contract' would have invalidated the original 'contract'.

I personally like Billy.... but I made it a point to NEVER enter into business with him.

TK and I argue all day long on just about every issue.... Don't believe me? Ask him.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[Ron 7]

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For the non-pilots out there, it is similiar to driving with an expired license.

Not really.... It is more like the guy qualified to drive the 18 wheeler hopping into a car and taking a package out for delivery.

The DOT considers a guy qualified to drive an 18 wheeler (Class A) to be qualified to drive a van (Class C).

The FAA does not consider a guy qualified to fly a 747 full of pax as qualified to fly a Piper Cub for hire.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[DiverMike 5]

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The FAA does not consider a guy qualified to fly a 747 full of pax as qualified to fly a Piper Cub for hire.

You are exactly correct and proving my point. You may not agree with the regulation, but you damn well better follow it . You can't pick and choose which regulations you like and want to follow. That (at least in my book) makes you an unsafe pilot.

For the same reason I jump off a perfectly good diving board.

[Ron 7]

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You are exactly correct and proving my point.

Not really, you said it was "it is similiar to driving with an expired license."

It actually is not similar.

You are correct that it shows ignorance of the regulation, but again people know you are not supposed to drive on an expired license. So it is not similar there either.

In any case, TK admitted the mistake and was reprimanded by the FAA. It was dumb, but not "unsafe" unless you are trying to claim that a guy qualified to fly a twin is somehow not safe flying a single.

And I will not defend him not following the FAR's.... I just pointed out your analogy was wrong on many levels.

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You may not agree with the regulation, but you damn well better follow it . You can't pick and choose which regulations you like and want to follow. That (at least in my book) makes you an unsafe pilot.

I hope you disclosed during your medical to the FAA that you have used drugs in the past.

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=3992966;#3992966

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I no longer smoke the silly stuff but I probably would if I wouldnt get fired for it.

+1

and I guess your following the FAR's does not count when no one see's it:

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=3640867;#3640867

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I agree - go with Don't ask Don't Tell. If you are really interested in the vagaries of what constitutes an aircraft incident Google the FAA Order 8020.11B

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334