mjosparky 3 #1 May 24, 2011 Does anyone know why USPA lists Maximum ground winds and minimum distances to the nearest hazard for “solo” students but mention nothing about tandems? I thought tandem passengers were considered students. SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 558 #2 May 24, 2011 Yes, tandem students are considered students, but their instructors are considered senior jumpers with the judgement to land on the DZ no matter what the winds. Both categories risk dragging after landing, but TIs are expected to anticipate dragging and solve the problem before it starts to hurt. Also, the better TIs learn not to trust ground crew and most have learned how to collapse canopies before the ground crew reach them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnnyMarko 1 #3 May 24, 2011 Ding dong the witch is dead Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 3 #4 May 24, 2011 QuoteDing dong the witch is dead Which one of your head voices came up with that? The medication won't work unless you take it every day. SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chuckakers 369 #5 May 24, 2011 http://www.uspa.org/SIM/Read/tabid/245/Default.aspxChuck Akers D-10855 Houston, TX Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peek 20 #6 May 24, 2011 QuoteDoes anyone know why USPA lists Maximum ground winds and minimum distances to the nearest hazard for “solo” students but mention nothing about tandems? I thought tandem passengers were considered students. This same question is asked of the USPA Safety and Training committee nearly every time (that I can remember) that there has been a well known or much discussed tandem landing incident when the winds were high or turbulent. The opinion and answer to that question has always been that the tandem instructor is a very experienced skydiver that can make their own decisions about the wind they (and their student) are comfortable jumping in. And indeed, with the wide variety of wingloadings and other variations in the amount of drive and manuverability of a particular tandem jump, it would be nearly impossible to state a limit that would not be too restrictive for some situations. If tandem instructors would be conservative in their decision making process, then all would be well. As to whether that is happening, and whether that is good or bad, well, the debate begins (again). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 3 #7 May 24, 2011 Quotehttp://www.uspa.org/SIM/Read/tabid/245/Default.aspx What am I supposed to do with that? USPA doesn't mention it in the BSR's. SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chuckakers 369 #8 May 24, 2011 QuoteQuotehttp://www.uspa.org/SIM/Read/tabid/245/Default.aspx What am I supposed to do with that? USPA doesn't mention it in the BSR's. Sparky Read it. If there's no stated limit, then there is no limit. That's kinda the point.Chuck Akers D-10855 Houston, TX Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 3 #9 May 25, 2011 QuoteQuoteQuotehttp://www.uspa.org/SIM/Read/tabid/245/Default.aspx What am I supposed to do with that? USPA doesn't mention it in the BSR's. Sparky Read it. If there's no stated limit, then there is no limit. That's kinda the point. I have read it, and the question was does anyone know why. SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 3 #10 May 25, 2011 QuoteQuoteDoes anyone know why USPA lists Maximum ground winds and minimum distances to the nearest hazard for “solo” students but mention nothing about tandems? I thought tandem passengers were considered students. This same question is asked of the USPA Safety and Training committee nearly every time (that I can remember) that there has been a well known or much discussed tandem landing incident when the winds were high or turbulent. The opinion and answer to that question has always been that the tandem instructor is a very experienced skydiver that can make their own decisions about the wind they (and their student) are comfortable jumping in. And indeed, with the wide variety of wingloadings and other variations in the amount of drive and manuverability of a particular tandem jump, it would be nearly impossible to state a limit that would not be too restrictive for some situations. If tandem instructors would be conservative in their decision making process, then all would be well. As to whether that is happening, and whether that is good or bad, well, the debate begins (again). I wonder if it has anything to do with keeping the cash cow in the air and so many of the people making the decision own a cash cow. SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DocPop 1 #11 May 25, 2011 Quote I wonder if it has anything to do with keeping the cash cow in the air and so many of the people making the decision own a cash cow. Sparky Or to rephrase that in a less emotive way: "I wonder if it is to allow DZOs to make decisions based on their own dropzones and personal experience so that they can continue to run an effective business.""The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 3 #12 May 25, 2011 QuoteQuote I wonder if it has anything to do with keeping the cash cow in the air and so many of the people making the decision own a cash cow. Sparky Or to rephrase that in a less emotive way: "I wonder if it is to allow DZOs to make decisions based on their own dropzones and personal experience so that they can continue to run an effective business." DZO’s have been known to make decisions that are not in the best interest of the jumpers involved. Once again you have stepped outside of your area of expertise. SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DocPop 1 #13 May 25, 2011 Quote DZO’s have been known to make decisions that are not in the best interest of the jumpers involved. Once again you have stepped outside of your area of expertise. Sparky Humans do that. It is in our nature to be imperfect. However, the DZO is on the ground at the time the decision needs to be made, affording them the best dataset on which to base a decision. What they do with that dataset is up to them, but it is a dataset that would not have been available when/if a committee somewhere made up a rule. You asked a question, I put forth an idea. If you would like to limit your responses in future, please mark the question "Only for people with >1,000 jumps" or "Not for DocPop"."The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 3 #14 May 25, 2011 Quote I put forth an idea No you didn’t, you tried to reword my post.SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
in2jumping 0 #15 May 25, 2011 QuoteQuoteQuote I wonder if it has anything to do with keeping the cash cow in the air and so many of the people making the decision own a cash cow. Sparky Or to rephrase that in a less emotive way: "I wonder if it is to allow DZOs to make decisions based on their own dropzones and personal experience so that they can continue to run an effective business." DZO’s have been known to make decisions that are not in the best interest of the jumpers involved. Once again you have stepped outside of your area of expertise. Sparky Sparky He is just defending his DZOs decision over there at Skydive Midwest on the canopy collapse incident that happened over there over the weekend. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
