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jimmurt

Employer's attitudes to skydivers

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My PM suggested I take the AFF course after I told him I was going to do a tandem. When I came back afterwards and said I was going to start skydiving he was a little surprised but didn't say anything.

Then again, I work in a double wide trailer with only 4 other people for a year at a time before moving on to the next trailer, the next team, and the next project.

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My employers have all known, but it's neither something I talk about much nor something I try to hide. Trying to hide it wouldn't work - google my name and there are enough references to me being a jumper out there that I can't be totally incognito.

Never had any problems from employers.
"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

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Regarding the job interview, it was on my resume.



That was interesting to me. Do people actually put hobbies on resumes? I don't have or put any on mine. I keep my personal life out of my work life except when coworkers become friends. None of anyone's business.



Over here we use CV's which are very similar to Resumes but are structured a little different. On most CVs you would have an 'Interest and Activites' section. To not have this section would look very bad. I used the word resume as the majority of posters are in the US.



No one is really interested in your hobbies. In the US, or Europe (I worked in Europe a few years). Only include things in your resume/CV that add to how your are presenting yourself. as an example, when I had the extra space in mine, I didnt list skydiving per say, but I general certifications, I had my coaching and instructor ratings.
Remster

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I think a lot of it depends on where you are at in the sport too. For me, it shows up in my self google searches. I also am so involved with the dropzone that it would be impractical for me to work somewhere that they didn't know.

My office walls are covered in skydiving pictures.
~D
Where troubles melt like lemon drops Away above the chimney tops That's where you'll find me.
Swooping is taking one last poke at the bear before escaping it's cave - davelepka

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In most cases telling a prospective employer about you being a jumper will hurt your chances.

There are exceptions, but I'll tell you this... Unless I could spin it into a VERY positive attribute, I'd not mention it. One job I had was as a corporate training instructor teaching in a loud and fast paced environment... Telling them that I had been a skydiving instructor for 16 years helped. My current position it would not have helped and therefore I didn't bring it up.

Two friends of mine disagreed with me.... They said they both used skydiving as a good thing. But one was an 8way World Champ, and the other was on the World Record bigway. Not exactly run of the mill jumping.

So, unless you can show how it makes you special (Working the logistics of a World Record, performing at the Worlds Best level) ... I would suggest not mentioning it.

But, many newer jumpers just love the sport so damn much that they think it makes them special and they want to proselytize about it.... OK, but to *most* people it makes you weird and dangerous. And in an interview you need to shine, but not look too far outside the norm.

I also compete in machine gun completions.... You think I include that in an resume for an analyst position? Hell no. Now if I were trying to get a job in security, maybe.
"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

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>Do you think bosses have the right to dictate to employees what they do
> in their spare time, especially when it's a legal sport?

Not at all. But there are good ways and bad ways to present something.

I homebrew, but don't make a big deal about it. Occasionally someone at work will ask me about it. I can react one of two ways:

"I'm not an alcoholic, and I don't drink on the job, and what I do at home is my own business!"

"Yeah, I have fun doing it. Do you like beer?"

Which way do you think would, in the long run, work out better both for my job and my hobby(ies?)

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google my name and there are enough references to me being a jumper out there that I can't be totally incognito.



Try having Klingelhoefer as a last name...... Impossible to go Incognito.



I get busted on my first name ... not too many of us around.
"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

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google my name and there are enough references to me being a jumper out there that I can't be totally incognito.



Try having Klingelhoefer as a last name...... Impossible to go Incognito.


I get busted on my first name ... not too many of us around.



Remster

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Do people actually put hobbies on resumes?



I always include at least one work-related hobby on my resume. As a software developer, I put "web development / open source programming" as a hobby. I don't know if it's looked at as sucking up or anything, but I've been asked about it before, which gives me a chance to showcase my portfolio.
I also put a few outdoor sports, being as I live in the Rockies, and almost every employer has a few people there that are into the same sports, so it seems like I fit in already.
Fire spinning / juggling stays on there, because 90% of the interviewers I've had have seen street performers, and usually comment, "I've never met a street performer before," and usually something about performing at a company party.

I don't think I'd ever put skydiving on my resume, because there's really not much of anything that can be related to the potential job or helping the company in any way. During an interview, employers don't care about what I do in my spare time; they care about how I can benefit the company.

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" ... (note: the other main activity he mentioned we were doing was boozing to which nobody batted an eyelid!). "

......................................................................

Trust me!
Boozing is far more dangerous than modern skydiving.
I hate to tell you how many times I fell down beer parlor stairs!
And all that drunken driving I used to do ... was profoundly STUPID! .. but it was POPULAR when I was a young skydiver.

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Your CV/Resume should be adapted to your potential interviewer. When I hire, I am looking for interesting people; so YES I expect to see at least a sentence or two that will give me a little personal colour on the applicant.

Placing skydiving on your CV could also serve as a “nutcase filter” which will weed out any managers with a “1950’s-era IBM corporate view” and requisite plastic pocket pen holder (Do you really want to work with someone/company like that anyway?).

I’ve lived/worked in Europe, US & Asia. For feedback, here’s my personal methodology when looking through CVs:

For my area, most everyone will have gone to good schools, have MBAs and held strong prior roles, so I’m looking for distinct items that will put your CV in my YES or NO pile. Anyone for which I am neutral will also end up in the NO pile, so playing-it-safe doesn’t always work.

- Interesting hobbies/interests usually notes an interesting person >YES
- Tells me about distinct coach ratings, etc; - “yawn” too pedantic > NO
- List activities like reading & walking; you may as well say breathing is hobby > NO
- Street performer skills as noted above (fire twirling & juggling) > NO (I’ll go hang out near a tourist area if I wish to be near people like that)
- If I can tell that you smoke > NO (may be illegal, sorry but who’s doing the hiring and how will you know)

For those early in their careers, the best advice I was given when I was in school was to take as many writing/speaking classes as possible, because no matter how skilled you are in your area, if you cannot express yourself well either verbally or by written means then you are not going to go far in your career.

And Listen! Early in my career, I went through a process that starting with over 600 applicants, then after multiple interviews, 5 people were flown to NY for a final group interview. I remember the interviewer started by going around the table asking each of us to give their background – then for the first query he looked at one applicant and said “John” (then pointing across the table to someone else) “Where did Edward say he is from?”
"Pain is the best instructor, but no one wants to attend his classes"

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I work in the ICU at a military hospital, and I'm active duty. When I first started watching wingsuit videos (yes, thats what hooked me :D), people started asking me all sorts of questions like I was suicidal. Luckily, when I made my appointment to talk my commander, she had been skydiving in the past quite a few times. She was impressed that I had done my homework about AFF, ground school, and emergency procedures, and signed the "high risk activity waiver" that the military requires before doing such activities. If it had been another colonel, one that had no experience skydiving, they could have easily said no. I still could have went, but without that waiver, I could have been in trouble had I gotten hurt during the process.

In freefall, you have the rest of your life to figure out what's wrong. -Joe, AFF Instructor

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I work in the ICU at a military hospital, and I'm active duty. When I first started watching wingsuit videos (yes, thats what hooked me :D), people started asking me all sorts of questions like I was suicidal. Luckily, when I made my appointment to talk my commander, she had been skydiving in the past quite a few times. She was impressed that I had done my homework about AFF, ground school, and emergency procedures, and signed the "high risk activity waiver" that the military requires before doing such activities. If it had been another colonel, one that had no experience skydiving, they could have easily said no. I still could have went, but without that waiver, I could have been in trouble had I gotten hurt during the process.



How long ago was this? Is this waiver still required? I was under the impression that it wasn't.

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In a business setting interview, the interviewer should only ask questions that relate directly to the job and your ability to perform well on the job. An interviewer is not able to ask if you're a single mother, whether you're divorced or not, where you live, or how often you like to skydive.

Furthermore, questions should also rely on valid predictors of job performance. Predictor questions should have evidence supporting their reliability and validity in predicting job performance.


Under employment law guidelines, discrimination is considered to be present regardless of intent. Intentional discrimination, or disparate treatment, occurs when a manager or organization intentionally discriminates.

Cliffs: If you feel you weren't hired because of talking about skydiving, that could be considered discrimination.

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Not hiring someone because they skydive is not discrimination. Not hiring them because of age, sex, race is discrimination. Skydivers are not a protected classification.

In the end an employer can just say that they don't consider some one who jumps out of a perfectly good airplane to be some one with good judgment. That's not the case to be sure, but it will protect an employer from discrimination liability.


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Not hiring someone because they skydive is not discrimination. Not hiring them because of age, sex, race is discrimination. Skydivers are not a protected classification.

In the end an employer can just say that they don't consider some one who jumps out of a perfectly good airplane to be some one with good judgment. That's not the case to be sure, but it will protect an employer from discrimination liability.



What he said.

One of the more interesting interviews I had was when I was in the process of running for the USPA Board. The interviewer had googled me and found reference to that, and asked not only about skydiving but about my decision to seek a leadership role in the skydiving community. It helped him to understand who I was as a person, not just in the office, but outside. He was genuinely interested and his questions showed zero hostility towards skydiving/skydivers.

I ultimately didn't move forward with the job, but it had nothing to do with my skydiving, more that it was pretty clear that my professional background wasn't quite what they were looking for.
"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

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Sounds like RMK above.......Hire people for their perceived value to the company not what in your personal perception you might think they should be. I could care less if someone smokes or sticks cucumbers in their ass,,,get the job done,,,thats why someone one is paying you !!!
smile, be nice, enjoy life
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Not hiring someone because they skydive is not discrimination. Not hiring them because of age, sex, race is discrimination. Skydivers are not a protected classification. .



Ding. Thanks for saving me the trouble of a snarky reply that would have had someone else ask me who whizzed in my cornflakes. :S

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Not hiring someone because they skydive is not discrimination. Not hiring them because of age, sex, race is discrimination. Skydivers are not a protected classification. .



Ding. Thanks for saving me the trouble of a snarky reply that would have had someone else ask me who whizzed in my cornflakes. :S


Quote

Since the American Civil War the term 'discrimination' generally evolved in American English usage as an understanding of prejudicial treatment of an individual based solely on their race, later generalized as membership in a certain socially undesirable group or social category.



If skydivers aren’t a “socially undesirable group” I don’t know who is.




http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discrimination

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Hi everyone,

I've just started jumping (better late than never) and decided to keep it quiet from my current employers simply because I don't want them to have anything to say about it. They don't have a leg to stand on because they haven't invested in me but that's a different forum.

Work to live, not live to work.

However it's a very valid question that everyone should think about. It's all very good to want your ego tickled by everyone taking an interest in your cool hobby but does it mean you'll get discriminated against, or held back, because there is a greater chance you won't be in on Monday.

it's something that should be considered.

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