If you think Cypres is better than Argus or any other AAD... Think again.

[mjosparky 3]

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Sooo... I want to buy an AAD for my rig. I wingsuit, track, test jump experimental canopies (high pull), and "swoop". Occasionally I freefall and IAD instruct, But it has been a while.

I was planning on buying a standard CYPRES is there something better?

This the one you need, designed to be all things to all people. All you need is to make sure you have the foot cocking wire.

Sparky

http://www.fxcguardian.com/2B2M1200025.htm

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[Trae 1]

in reply to "This the one you need, designed to be all things to all people. All you need is to make sure you have the foot cocking wire. "
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Saw these operate on student mains over many years with nil problems. Very tough reliable unit .

[mjosparky 3]

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in reply to "This the one you need, designed to be all things to all people. All you need is to make sure you have the foot cocking wire. "
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Saw these operate on student mains over many years with nil problems. Very tough reliable unit .

I used them during testing some years ago. Not my idea. On exit I would shut it off. They could have an operational window + or – 1500 feet something I did not want to deal with during a live test.

Sparkly

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[Trae 1]

in reply to "I used them during testing some years ago. Not my idea. On exit I would shut it off. They could have an operational window + or – 1500 feet something I did not want to deal with during a live test. "
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I have a good memory of the FXC's.
thing was most users, mainly students, outgrew them.
Skydivers don't seem to outgrow their AAd's anymore so much...more like addicted to them.
I think its stopping them from learning some things that pre-AAD skydivers took for granted.

The AAD's do it for us. Kinda like a medication rather than a cure.

[boxhead 0]

I can see how that can be true, but only to a very minor extent. I don't see how the use and availabilty of a Cypres or other modern AAD has or can impact the skill level of skydivers as a whole.

Technology can be blamed for the "dumbing down" of humans in many cases. Most of our automobiles are extremely riddled with electronics and mechanisms that stop us from learning about the mechanics at play under the hood. Learning to drive a car with power Steering and an automatic transmissions makes it difficult to lean how to correctly handle and corner an automobile. Also, our reliance on GPS devices for driving, flying, and hiking greatly reduces our navigational skills. I doubt my kids will know what to do with a map. . .


However, the argument that a modern electronic AAD has similar consequences on a skydiver's skill levels is kind of weak. Most of us never experience an AAD firing, and therefore are not really relying on it. In the end, one can really only argue that the feeling of security one has because of an AAD may alter his or her behavior while using one. I believe and hope that most skydivers just turn their Cypres on and forget about it - apart from knowing and being prepared to having to pull silver when pulling way too low. Those jumpers that have waited for their AAD to fire because they could not find their reserve handle or do very stupid things only because they have one are foolish, most likely suffer from some mental illness, and are not a proper representation of the AAD using population as a whole.


Boxhead

[mjosparky 3]

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I can see how that can be true, but only to a very minor extent. I don't see how the use and availabilty of a Cypres or other modern AAD has or can impact the skill level of skydivers as a whole.

There is, of course the analogy that is made with a lot of modern technology in regards to something common, like cars for example. Most of our automobiles are extremely riddled with electronics and mechanisms that stop us from learning about the mechanics at play under the hood as well as learning how to correctly handle an automobile.

However, the argument that a modern electronic AAD has similar consequences on skydiver's skill levels is quite weaker. A major reason is that the vast majority of us never even experience the functioning of our AAD as opposed to someone's frequent use of a car's traction control or ABS breaks. So in effect, one can only really argue that the feeling of security one has because of an AAD may alter his or her behavior while using one. The great majority of us just use it and forget about it - apart from knowing we have to pull silver if we find outselves in a situation where we are humming it down.


Boxhead

Read your post real slow and see if that is what you meant to write. I have read through it 3 times and it just doesn't make sense.

Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[JohnMitchell 14]

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I used them during testing some years ago. Not my idea. On exit I would shut it off. They could have an operational window + or – 1500 feet something I did not want to deal with during a live test.

Sparkly

Agreed. I had one on my AFF student rig I bought back in the early eighties. More than once my students had it fire the reserve when the main deployed at 2500'. Not a good system.

[JohnMitchell 14]

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I have a good memory of the FXC's.
thing was most users, mainly students, outgrew them.

The FXC's had some real operational difficulties. That's why experienced people didn't use them.

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Skydivers don't seem to outgrow their AAd's anymore so much...more like addicted to them.
I think its stopping them from learning some things that pre-AAD skydivers took for granted.

Modern AAD's have very few disadvantages and many advantages. That's like saying "Experienced drivers should outgrow seatbelts." Nonsense. You've been jumping almost as long as I have. How many dead friends do you have that an AAD would have saved? Too many for me.

What are we not learning now that we have AAD's so prevalent?

[Trae 1]

in reply to "The FXC's had some real operational difficulties. That's why experienced people didn't use them. "
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Hi John,
I mainly saw them being used on student mains and set high, not as a last resort . They worked just fine . On a reserve I wouldn't have been so keen .

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in reply to "Modern AAD's have very few disadvantages and many advantages. That's like saying "Experienced drivers should outgrow seatbelts." Nonsense. You've been jumping almost as long as I have. How many dead friends do you have that an AAD would have saved? Too many for me. What are we not learning now that we have AAD's so prevalent? "

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Its sad but I can't think of a single friend that would have been saved by an AAD. So many other dangers in this world when you push it a bit.
Height awareness would have saved quite a few though.
Being guided by decent, intelligent , well paced individuals would have saved even more.
So many incidents are created by a mad collective rush that would have been a warning sign preAAD days. eg What a show of broken bones and death from HP ZP canopies .

My feeling is preAAD , preAFF, skydivers knew how to take it all one step at a time .
Now its straight to the top, by-passing the steady accumulation of knowledge and experiences .
This shows up for example in higher canopy control incidence rates,
Poor exit skills are another warning sign of basic lessons not learnt.
I've seen experienced skydivers afraid to exit an aircraft at 2500'. AFF trained of course.
Many things are not being learnt.
Most could be relearnt easy enough . Have to recognise the small gaps in their knowledge first though.

[mjosparky 3]

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My feeling is preAAD , preAFF, skydivers knew how to take it all one step at a time .

In most cases they were made to take it a step at a time. You were taught basic survival skills before moving on. Now jumpers don’t spot, pack their own gear and depend on electronic gizmos to whisper in their ear when it is time to pull. And if you forget they are sure an AAD with save their life. They think they are all going to be like the guys they see in the magazines, never giving a thought to how long and how much work it took the best to get to that position.
And it isn’t just HP canopies it’s an attitude, a culture killing jumpers.

Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[JohnMitchell 14]

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My feeling is preAAD , preAFF, skydivers knew how to take it all one step at a time .

I don't know. A lot of them bounced, you know. Maybe it was the 9-10 years I preceded you, but I've known too many impact deaths.

[Trae 1]

in reply to "Maybe it was the 9-10 years I preceded you, but I've known too many impact deaths. "
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A relatively peculiar thing happened around the time I did my first jump. There had been a spate of bounces and incidents at the DZ just prior to my first jump course.
The military moved in....no-one bounced at that DZ for the next 15 years.

[billvon 2,380]

>Its sad but I can't think of a single friend that would have been saved by an AAD.

I can think of one who would have been, one who would have been saved if she had operated it correctly, and a few that _were_ saved by them.

[JohnMitchell 14]

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A relatively peculiar thing happened around the time I did my first jump. There had been a spate of bounces and incidents at the DZ just prior to my first jump course.
The military moved in....no-one bounced at that DZ for the next 15 years.

Statistically insignificant, but I hope your luck holds. Our DZ has been doing very well too.