Golden Knight Tandem Swoop

[Flyfast 0]

http://www.wvillustrated.com/wvufootball/videos?bcpid=35815030001&bckey=AQ~~,AAAACEcoKmk~,NEELBwW9ZtgEeDH6laRax2nZvD08X5T_&bctid=993290414001

Haha, almost.

ZC OG

[Mixoligist 0]

Fail!

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Better you than me
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[davelepka 4]

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Haha, almost

I'm not sure if that's funny at all. Pond swooping a tandem? A Golden Knight, who as far as I know only does high-profile promotional jumps, is attempting to pond swoop a tandem? In front of, what I can only assume, is a crowd of some sort?

If the pax was an experienced jumper and willing participant in a 'stunt' at a DZ for fun, then it is funny and cool all at the same time.

If this was business as ususal for the GKs, then it's not funny.

[NovaTTT 1]

I know nothing about business as usual for the GK or about this jump in particular.

But I think he was not trying to pond swoop the pax - it seems to me he mis-judged a tight approach to a lake or pond beach.

Second 5 I think shows the target lake and seconds 12-14 show the LZ closely surrounded by tall trees.

Poor planning and execution are the fail here, IMO.

"Even in a world where perfection is unattainable, there's still a difference between excellence and mediocrity." Gary73

[Divalent 89]

And that looked like a potential neck-breaking crash when they landed head down on the beach after bouncing off the water.

[davelepka 4]

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But I think he was not trying to pond swoop the pax - it seems to me he mis-judged a tight approach to a lake or pond beach.

I couldn't disagree more. If you look at the video of the 'swoop' it appears that the beach continues on to the left of the screen more than far enough to allow for a 'dry' landing. It also appears that the TI intentionally swings wide out over the water in order to come back into shore from out there.

Also, if the LZ was so tight, why fly a high speed approach? Why not fly a standard, straight in approach where you would have much more control over things? Even a stall/surge if you wanted extra speed for landing, but over sand, why bother?

I'll add that that don't let just anyone do tandems for the GKs. You have to be the best of the best to get a slot as a TI with the GKs, certainly good enough to be able to put down a tandem anywhere you wanted.

It seems that the pax was the head football coach for WVU. Like I said, high profile.

[jumper03 0]

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Haha, almost

I'm not sure if that's funny at all. Pond swooping a tandem? A Golden Knight, who as far as I know only does high-profile promotional jumps, is attempting to pond swoop a tandem? In front of, what I can only assume, is a crowd of some sort?

If the pax was an experienced jumper and willing participant in a 'stunt' at a DZ for fun, then it is funny and cool all at the same time.

If this was business as ususal for the GKs, then it's not funny.

I didn't see US Army anywhere in that video...

Scars remind us that the past is real

[davelepka 4]

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I didn't see US Army anywhere in that video...

Maybe I jumped to that conclusion because the thread was entitled 'Golden Knight tandem swoop', and then I recognized some of the Knights in the video, and a bunch of guys wearing the Knights black jumpsuits with the two gold stripes.

I also noticed another video in that set where the local Fox affiliate interviewed the coach before the jump. Like I said, high profile.

[NovaTTT 1]

I see there is more beach but I can't see what's behind the camera. What I do see is there is a recreational area and presumably a structure or structures off to the right.

Knowing what lakes and coves are like I can easily imagine there is forest behind the beach just like across the cove.

That's what leads me to think it was a tight LZ and the TI screwed up the approach and landing.

"Even in a world where perfection is unattainable, there's still a difference between excellence and mediocrity." Gary73

[matthewcline 0]

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I didn't see US Army anywhere in that video...

Maybe I jumped to that conclusion because the thread was entitled 'Golden Knight tandem swoop', and then I recognized some of the Knights in the video, and a bunch of guys wearing the Knights black jumpsuits with the two gold stripes.

I also noticed another video in that set where the local Fox affiliate interviewed the coach before the jump. Like I said, high profile.

I will just say that is not a US Army Parachute Team conducted Jump.

Former Members sure.

Matt

An Instructors first concern is student safety.
So, start being safe, first!!!

[davelepka 4]

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I will just say that is not a US Army Parachute Team conducted Jump.

Former Members sure.

The gear does not look GK spec, but that would be the easist thing on the team to replace.

The jumpers, their jumpsuits, and the media presence certainly lead one to believe it's an 'official' GK jump. In my opinion, that would be reason enough to conduct yourself like a GK.

That aside, it was a bad move on the part of the TI. I don't buy into the idea that it was a tight approach, and a toggle swoop over the pond was the only way in.

[matthewcline 0]

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I will just say that is not a US Army Parachute Team conducted Jump.

Former Members sure.

The gear does not look GK spec, but that would be the easist thing on the team to replace.

The jumpers, their jumpsuits, and the media presence certainly lead one to believe it's an 'official' GK jump. In my opinion, that would be reason enough to conduct yourself like a GK.

That aside, it was a bad move on the part of the TI. I don't buy into the idea that it was a tight approach, and a toggle swoop over the pond was the only way in.

Only one of the Jumps suits look like an OLD GK suit. All the rest of the colors are another team.

I concur with the rest of your assessment.

Matt

An Instructors first concern is student safety.
So, start being safe, first!!!

[davelepka 4]

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I concur with the rest of your assessment

I concur with your assesment of the jumpers affiliation (or lack of) with the GKs.

Edit to add -

According to this article, this was indeed the GKs

http://www.dailymail.com/ap/ApTopStories/201106150381

I tend to doubt the accuracy of the media, so I'm still open to the idea it wasn't them.

[matthewcline 0]

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I concur with the rest of your assessment

I concur with your assesment of the jumpers affiliation (or lack of) with the GKs.

Edit to add -

According to this article, this was indeed the GKs

http://www.dailymail.com/ap/ApTopStories/201106150381

I tend to doubt the accuracy of the media, so I'm still open to the idea it wasn't them.

I read the article too. But do not think they faces are current Team Members of the USAPT.

The media could have gotten it wrong ,the article is a school (Student) journalist? and if one of the old suits still had the GK patch, well assumptions happen.

Matt

An Instructors first concern is student safety.
So, start being safe, first!!!

[DALAILAMA 0]

It wasn't us.

"Dropzone.com, where uneducated people measuring penises, has become an art form"

[matthewcline 0]

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It wasn't us.

There you have it!

Matt

An Instructors first concern is student safety.
So, start being safe, first!!!

[Ron 7]

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A Golden Knight, who as far as I know only does high-profile promotional jumps, is attempting to pond swoop a tandem? In front of, what I can only assume, is a crowd of some sort?

Mike Elliot is no longer active on the GK tandem team.... The gear was not GK (even if the jump suits were).

So, I tend to think this was not a GK event.

Of course, Greg W said it was not.... But you can't really trust him, trust me

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[davelepka 4]

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Of course, Greg W said it was not.... But you can't really trust him, trust me

I made the mistake of trusting him yesterday, glad you came along to help out.

I really do buy that this wasn't an official GK event, but the news reported it as such, and I think the pax even mentioned the Gks at some point either on camera or in print.

So if one of the guys was a former GK, they're wearing GK suits, and the pax and media are reporting it as GKs, maybe the real GKs should be concerned. This didn't appear to be a regualr DZ, so it looks like former team members are doing publicity jumps, off of a DZ, and possibly representing themselves as GKs.

Might be something to look into, that's all.

And the swoop was still a bonehead move.

[wildcard451 0]

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And the swoop was still a bonehead move.

But it was over water, so it's all good.

[skydived19006 4]

Ok, so the US Military doesn't comply with USPA rules so they can do tandem demonstration jumps into football stadiums, etc without even breaking any rules.

That said, this was a demonstration tandem skydive (apparently not DOD), therefore requiring an Level 1 landing area.

From the BSRs:
3. Demonstration jumps into Level 2 areas require a D license with a USPA PRO Rating for all jumpers, including both tandem jump participants.[E]

5. Tandem jumps into stadiums are prohibited.[E]

Unless he had an Executive Committee waiver the TI is subject to disciplinary action. This video being out there is akin to putting up a video done in the US of a tandem with a 10 year old kid.

And lastly, why the fuck didn't he nail the flair?! Could have pretty much salvaged that landing if he'd simply finished the flair.

Experience is what you get when you thought you were going to get something else.

AC DZ

[Ron 7]

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I made the mistake of trusting him yesterday, glad you came along to help out.

You missed the smiley on my post... You must assuredly CAN trust Greg Windmiller 100%. I trust him completely.... And in turn, he makes sure life is interesting .

I also like to bust his balls when I get the chance. But he has my complete trust.

If he says it was not GK, then it was not GK.... Just don't trust him if he asks if his finger smells funny.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[davelepka 4]

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You missed the smiley on my post... You must assuredly CAN trust Greg Windmiller 100%

Maybe I should have put a smiley on my post. I meant it as I did trust him yesterday, but only lost that trust based on you telling me not to.

I'll take the word of a current GK with regards to current GK activites anyday.

The swoop is still fucked up, and as Martin poitned out, there might be other regulatory issues with the jump as well.

Does anyone have any real info with regards to this? Is there a DZ in WV now? I know someone was trying to set one up near the New River, is that where the jump originated from? Do they have a waiver to make off DZ tandem jumps?

[Ron 7]

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That said, this was a demonstration tandem skydive (apparently not DOD), therefore requiring an Level 1 landing area.

Could have been another MIL Demo team... I can think of 4 others off the top of my head (82d, Silver Wings, Black Daggers, SOCOM).

And I could not tell the size or location of the landing area based on that video.... It might have been like at Zhills where they have a pond and some buildings close to it, but a LARGE landing area that would make it an open field demo.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[diablopilot 2]

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Ok, so the US Military doesn't comply with USPA rules so they can do tandem demonstration jumps into football stadiums, etc without even breaking any rules.

That said, this was a demonstration tandem skydive (apparently not DOD), therefore requiring an Level 1 landing area.

From the BSRs:
3. Demonstration jumps into Level 2 areas require a D license with a USPA PRO Rating for all jumpers, including both tandem jump participants.[E]

5. Tandem jumps into stadiums are prohibited.[E]

Unless he had an Executive Committee waiver the TI is subject to disciplinary action. This video being out there is akin to putting up a video done in the US of a tandem with a 10 year old kid.

And lastly, why the fuck didn't he nail the flair?! Could have pretty much salvaged that landing if he'd simply finished the flair.

Here's a bit from the USPA website that may give additional perspective.

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Tandem Demonstrations/Exhibitions
Known as parachute demonstrations by the FAA, or Exhibition Jumping by USPA,
many air show activities may require waivers, but skydiving demonstration jumps
do not. As provided in FAR 105, some of these jumps require a certificate of
authorization. FAA Form 7711‐2 is the application for authorizations for
parachute jumps.
The FAA derives its guidance on parachute demonstrations from their Flight
Standards Information Management System (8900) ‐ formally know as the
inspector’s handbook. For the most part, as part of a collaborative effort, their
guidance mirrors USPA SIM guidance.  
Section 105.21 includes rules applicable to jumps over or into congested areas or
open‐air assemblies of persons. Jumps that are made over or into a congested
area or open‐air assemblies require an FAA Certificate of Authorization. The
FSIMS mandates the size of the landing area and the experience level required for
skydivers to receive FAA approval.
Under the heading Tandem Jump Demonstrations, the FAA guidance states that,
“Tandem jumps will only be authorized in open field and Level I landing areas.”
This mirrors the USPA BSR2‐1‐J‐5 statement, “Tandem Jumps into stadiums are
prohibited. [E]”
The difference is that the FAA provisions may not be waived. I have confirmed
this with them at several meetings. It would seem that the BSRs give false hope
because even if the Executive Committee were to waive the BSR, the FAA would
not.
I suggest that we delete the [E] waiver to the tandem demo BSR.
—Randy Ottinger, Director of Government Relations

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