selling discount coupons

[champu 1]

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You are probably right. We probably did put it on the bottom of the certificate by mistake.

I'm not talking about whether or not selling the certificate is screwing over the intent you had when you wrote "non-transferrable" on the certificate, I'm talking about whether it's screwing over the intent you had when you gave the certificate to the event organizer.

Is it that you want to give out more certificates to advertise more broadly and you put non-transferrable on there to limit the number that actually get redeemed because not everyone who wins one wants a Vector? (or any new rig for that matter?)

[klingeme 0]

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So is a condition of the certificate that the owner can never sell the rig they obtain? Seems like that's essentially what's happening by transferring the certificate. Just passing the certificate instead of the rig. If that is the condition, and it was even remotely enforceable (which it's not), then the certificate isn't worth the paper it's printed on in my opinion.

Here's a coupon that will get you back to a dealer's price, but you can never sell the rig......um, no thanks.

Sounds to me like that really hasn't been thought through with any common sense applied. Then again, it's just my opinion.

The intent of the certificate is for it to be used by the person who wins it. If you happen to give it to a friend of yours who is looking to buy a rig, we would probably never hear anything about it. If you advertise it on EBay or DZ.com for $300-$400, you are actually more working as a "Dealer", except you are not actually helping the "customer" out at all. Our Dealers make a profit selling our rigs because they actually help the customer through the process. A person selling the certificate is just out to make a quick buck, and that is the reason the certificates are "non-transferable".

It does not matter if you agree with the policy or not, it is written right on the certificate.


If you buy the rig, jump it for a while, and then sell it because you are downsizing or getting out of the sport or whatever, verses selling a certificate.....Same thing, REALLY?

Like I said before, if you sell a certificate locally (or trade it for a case of beer or something), chances are you will never get "caught", but if you are advertising it on the internet and selling it for a couple hundred bucks, don't be surprised when you get contacted by the person you sold it to and find out that it has been VOIDED because it was sold. I have done this on a few occasions.

Mark Klingelhoefer

[klingeme 0]

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You are probably right. We probably did put it on the bottom of the certificate by mistake.

I'm not talking about whether or not selling the certificate is screwing over the intent you had when you wrote "non-transferrable" on the certificate, I'm talking about whether it's screwing over the intent you had when you gave the certificate to the event organizer.

Is it that you want to give out more certificates to advertise more broadly and you put non-transferrable on there to limit the number that actually get redeemed because not everyone who wins one wants a Vector? (or any new rig for that matter?)

The purpose of the certificates is to help organizers draw people to their events. This often gets our company logo on advertising. It also offers someone a chance to get a good deal on a container.

Our intent is not to have someone who knows very little about our company the opportunity to act as a "dealer" to sell one of our containers. We research people who want to sell our containers pretty thoroughly before we offer them a dealership. They need to be able to answer questions and help guide the person they are selling to through the process of purchasing a container. Someone who spends $1 for a raffle ticket at a boogie does not automatically meet these criteria.

Mark Klingelhoefer

[champu 1]

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You are probably right. We probably did put it on the bottom of the certificate by mistake.

I'm not talking about whether or not selling the certificate is screwing over the intent you had when you wrote "non-transferrable" on the certificate, I'm talking about whether it's screwing over the intent you had when you gave the certificate to the event organizer.

Is it that you want to give out more certificates to advertise more broadly and you put non-transferrable on there to limit the number that actually get redeemed because not everyone who wins one wants a Vector? (or any new rig for that matter?)

The purpose of the certificates is to help organizers draw people to their events. This often gets our company logo on advertising. It also offers someone a chance to get a good deal on a container.

Our intent is not to have someone who knows very little about our company the opportunity to act as a "dealer" to sell one of our containers. We research people who want to sell our containers pretty thoroughly before we offer them a dealership. They need to be able to answer questions and help guide the person they are selling to through the process of purchasing a container. Someone who spends $1 for a raffle ticket at a boogie does not automatically meet these criteria.

Mark Klingelhoefer

Thank you, that was significantly more helpful than your other responses.

I imagine when you're working with the person who won the certificate to redeem it you have to provide a lot of the dealer guidance you speak of. Whether it's the original winner or someone who bought it for a reasonable price at the end of the day the raffle took place, Vector/UPT logos made it into the event ads, and someone's walking around with a rig that they'll probably tell people they got a good deal on with a certificate.

I can appreciate not wanting to see these things get sold online for hundreds of dollars because that encourages people to shop for rigs via certificates on dropzone, but I'm a little hung up on your apparent disgust for people who split it with a buddy locally and you talking about that like it's getting away with something nefarious.

[klingeme 0]

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I'm a little hung up on your apparent disgust for people who split it with a buddy locally and you talking about that like it's getting away with something nefarious.

It's pretty simple. We put "non-transferable" on the certificate, so if it is "transferred" you are "breaking our rules".

[nbblood 0]

That's fine. If that's your policy, that's your policy. My contention all along is that the factory discount tickets are rarely worth anything at all. I wouldn't advise anybody to pay $10 for the typical 30% off base price ones you see everywhere. That was my original point. I definitely would recommend (in most cases) that an individual throw that certificate in the trash and go see a dealer. They'll probably spend less in the process anyway. Most of the certificates I've seen merely get you back to roughly what you'd pay a dealer anyway. So why not support your local dealer? I certainly would. I have trashed two such certificates myself. I have more scruples than to try and screw somebody for $300 or $200 or whatever for something that's not going to do them any good. They're rarely a good deal at all.

Of course I still don't understand why UPT would object to transferring the coupon. But that's fine. If I ever win one, I'll be glad to just put it in the trash.....or have a ceremonial burning....or use it for target practice....or something else, who knows?

Edit: By the way, by "voiding" a coupon, you're essentially opening a potentially locked in customer to the open field of all the other manufacturers. In other words, guy is looking for a rig, has a couple manufacturers in mind, comes across a buddy that has a coupon that seems like a good deal, coupon gets voided, guy decides he likes manufacturer X better anyway. A rig you could have sold just went out the window.

Was that considered in your "non-transferrable" policy? Just seems like really poor business sense to me. And this to avoid somebody else making a few bucks on the transfer? If you're supporting the gear dealers by this policy, that's honorable. If you're taking a hit and realizing it to support the dealers, I applaud you. If this is solely a business decision, I recommend a new look at the sales department.

Again, I'm not a fan of the certificates anyway. But I find this interesting that UPT would take such a stand. Sounds to me like you may have lost potential customers in the past over it. But whatever......Great rigs by the way! Especially the Sigmas! But across the board, great rigs!

Blues,
Nathan

If you wait 'til the last minute, it'll only take a minute.

[klingeme 0]

I would assume the policy has lost us a few (4 or 5 maybe) rig sales in the past, but we support our dealers and the job they do for us, so if we need to lose a container sale or two to "prove" that we support them, we are defiantly willing to do that.

Good discussion here and, while you may not 100% agree, I'm glad we could have it civilly. Thanks for the compliments on the Sigma and we'll keep on innovating to supply the skydiving world with the best containers available.

Mark Klingelhoefer

[nbblood 0]

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I would assume the policy has lost us a few (4 or 5 maybe) rig sales in the past, but we support our dealers and the job they do for us, so if we need to lose a container sale or two to "prove" that we support them, we are defiantly willing to do that.

Good discussion here and, while you may not 100% agree, I'm glad we could have it civilly. Thanks for the compliments on the Sigma and we'll keep on innovating to supply the skydiving world with the best containers available.

Mark Klingelhoefer

Ok, to me that is very honorable and I applaud that approach. To me, that's good old-fashioned loyalty, perhaps at the expense of a little profit. Loyalty is worth that price, IMHO.

I still don't like the certificates in general and I certainly wouldn't recommend anybody actually pay money for one. Not just UPT....all of them.....at least the ones I've seen.

Blues,
Nathan

If you wait 'til the last minute, it'll only take a minute.

[jakee 1,254]

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I didn't see anyone calling anyone's integrity into question,

Strange, seems to me that asking if someone's actions are morally right is pretty much the definition of questioning someone's integrity.

No one has used the phrase "morally right" here in this thread, except you.

Oh, ok. So when the original poster asked "Is it right to sell something he won?" what do you think he meant? Is it republican? Should he use his right hand to make the exchange?

Give me a break

Do you want to have an ideagasm?