tsalnukt 1 #1 June 17, 2011 One of our jumpers won a gift certificate for 50% off a container. He has offered to sell the gift certificate to one of our newer jumpers for $300. What do you think?? Is it right to sell something that he won? Please discuss......... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
piisfish 135 #2 June 17, 2011 sometimes yes, sometimes no... personnally I wouldn't just give them away to the first person asking... I would select who would be interested, and who would need it... 300$ for a approx 1000$ reduction, not too bad...scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #3 June 17, 2011 QuoteWhat do you think?? Is it right to sell something that he won? Yes. He won it - he can do what he wants with it. He may not need a new rig, and if he can help someone else get what they need for a discount, that's great. The company who gave the discount is not out anything more than what they offered in the first place - it matters not who holds the discount coupon. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wolfriverjoe 1,340 #4 June 17, 2011 Is there any sort of "Not Transferrable" or "Only Valid For Original Winner" on the certificate? Did anybody ask the manufacturer? Unless there is a restriction or the mfg says "No", then I think JohnRich has it correct."There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pincheck 0 #5 June 17, 2011 Quote Is there any sort of "Not Transferrable" or "Only Valid For Original Winner" on the certificate? Did anybody ask the manufacturer? Unless there is a restriction or the mfg says "No", then I think JohnRich has it correct. Don't think so, some like containers are only on base price i think but i have never won one . As already mentioned its the owners call about selling or giving it away to someone who needs it ? , its only worth what someone would pay anyway ! Billy-Sonic Haggis Flickr-Fun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AndyMan 7 #6 June 17, 2011 QuoteWhat do you think?? Is it right to sell something that he won? Right? I can't think of any reason why it's wrong. He's got something, he wants to get rid of, and someone else wants it. What's wrong with that? More importantly, what you're describing is very common, and is basically standard practice among these discounts. _Am__ You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nbblood 0 #7 June 17, 2011 I'd say, yes that's fine. No problem selling the coupon assuming there is not a "non-transferrable" clause. I think most of the manufacturers coupons are for whoever holds them, so no problem. BUT....if I was a buyer I would very carefully do the math and see if it was worth $300 or whatever they were asking. All of the manufacturers coupons for containers (at least the ones I've seen) refer to manufacturers retail price. This price is well inflated over the retail price you could get by going through a gear dealer. So saving 30% may only get you back to the price you would've got through a dealer anyway. And if you paid $200 to get the coupon, you paid $200 more than you would have just going through a dealer. This is a hypothetical situation. Ok 50% may be a good deal. Is that 50% off base price? 50% off options? 50% off both? Bottom line, get a quote from a dealer for what you plan on ordering. Check the price from the manufacturer and and account for the coupon. See how much you'll save. That will tell you if the coupon is worth the price. Then consider the convenience of not having to go through that process. Also consider your local gear dealer is probably trying to make a living in his/her business. Is saving $50 worth bypassing your gear dealer? $100? $500? Make the decision you are comfortable with. Bottom line: MOST manufacturers coupons aren't the great deals they seem to be on the surface. Rarely are they worth paying $300 for IMO. 50% sounds attractive though. Do the math. Don't take it for face value. Account for other factors. Of course, my opinion and a buck will get you a cup of coffee somewhere.Blues, Nathan If you wait 'til the last minute, it'll only take a minute. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tsalnukt 1 #8 June 17, 2011 I agree that that th one who holds the certificate holds the power and may do with it as he wishes and they can sell it to whoeve will buy it for whatever they are willing to pay for it. As was mentioned, it might not really be a good deal in the end anway. Personally....I would much rather see a more experienced jumper with no use for a 50% off coupon, pass it on to a newer jumper trying to get gear and doesn't have a lot of money to do so. No one is losing any money and you've helped someone get their first rig. Plus the Karma points you would earn are worth way more than $300........IMO Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NWFlyer 2 #9 June 17, 2011 QuoteWhat do you think?? Is it right to sell something that he won? Sure. I won a certificate for a free Cypres 4-year or 8-year check at Chicks Rock last year. I laughed as I went up to get it because neither I nor my SO own a Cypres in any of our three AAD-equipped rigs. So I sold it to a friend for half the cost of a Cypres check. Win-win for both of us - I got rid of something that was worthless to me, he saved money on his inspection."There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,254 #10 June 17, 2011 QuotePersonally....I would much rather see a more experienced jumper with no use for a 50% off coupon, pass it on to a newer jumper trying to get gear and doesn't have a lot of money to do so. Sure that would be the nicest possible thing that the winner could do with the prize, but they're in no way obligated to do it, and you're way off base calling their integrity into question for not doing it. Consider: if the prize was a cheque for $1,000 would you be asking if the winner was right in keeping it and not giving it to a new jumper to spend on gear? If not, what's the difference?Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #11 June 17, 2011 QuoteQuotePersonally....I would much rather see a more experienced jumper with no use for a 50% off coupon, pass it on to a newer jumper trying to get gear and doesn't have a lot of money to do so. Sure that would be the nicest possible thing that the winner could do with the prize, but they're in no way obligated to do it, and you're way off base calling their integrity into question for not doing it. Consider: if the prize was a cheque for $1,000 would you be asking if the winner was right in keeping it and not giving it to a new jumper to spend on gear? If not, what's the difference? I don't know why you're trying to stir up trouble here. Your analogy is not an apples-to-apples comparison. The coupon for a specific item of gear is something that the jumper doesn't need, while $1,000 cash is something that everyone could use. So giving the coupon away that she doesn't need is a good deal for someone else. But the $1,000 cash she could use on anything, like paying bills, or buying some other non-skydiving item, and therefore it has much more value than a skydiving-specific coupon. There is nothing wrong with a jumper either keeping the coupon for themself, selling it to another, or giving it away for free. All three options are perfectly within their rights. No one has an obligation to help new jumpers to their own financial detrement. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,254 #12 June 17, 2011 QuoteI don't know why you're trying to stir up trouble here. I'm just giving my opinion. Why are you trying to stir up an argument? QuoteYour analogy is not an apples-to-apples comparison. The coupon for a specific item of gear is something that the jumper doesn't need, while $1,000 cash is something that everyone could use. Like $300 in cash in exchange for the coupon? QuoteSo giving the coupon away that she doesn't need is a good deal for someone else. But the $1,000 cash she could use on anything, like paying bills, or buying some other non-skydiving item In exactly the same fashion that she could use the $300 cash you get from selling the coupon. QuoteThere is nothing wrong with a jumper either keeping the coupon for themself, selling it to another, or giving it away for free. All three options are perfectly within their rights. No one has an obligation to help new jumpers to their own financial detrement. So, since you've just restated my position, what exactly was you problem with my position?Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #13 June 17, 2011 QuoteSo, since you've just restated my position, what exactly was you problem with my position? I had a problem with this part of your statement: "you're way off base calling their integrity into question for not doing it"I didn't see anyone calling anyone's integrity into question, therefore you seemed to be stirring up trouble. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,254 #14 June 17, 2011 QuoteI didn't see anyone calling anyone's integrity into question, Strange, seems to me that asking if someone's actions are morally right is pretty much the definition of questioning someone's integrity.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
davelepka 4 #15 June 18, 2011 QuoteWhat do you think?? Is it right to sell something that he won? Sure. It belongs to him and he can do with it as he pleases. What nbblood said was right, the coupons are almost always for 'whatever' off retail, and most dealers charge something significantly less than retail. The buyer of such a coupon needs to shop around for the best price on the container in question and see if it's more or less than 50% off retail plus $300 to get the coupon. You can save money buying discount coupons, but it's rarely more than a couple hundred bucks, and that's only if you buy the coupon for no more than a couple hundred bucks. In terms of who buys the coupon, who cares if it's a new jumper buying their first rig or an old timer buying their tenth rig? If the buyer happens to be about to order that exact container, and comes up with the cash for the coupon, it's theirs. You realize that were not feeding hungry children here. Any jumper, old or new, looking to buy new gear isn't a charity case who deserves a 'hand out'. You're talking about a person with the good fortune to be able to spend many thousands of dollars on new gear, not someone looking for a 'leg up' in life. If someone can't afford new gear, there are dozens of rigs for sale for less than half the price of new. The manufacturer is looking for some publicity, and to pick up a new customer. Even at half off, I'm sure they make a couple bucks, plus future sales, plus exposure on the DZ, plus the jumper telling everyone about the great discount they got, plus freebag and PC sales after cutaways, the list goes on forever. They don't care who that new customer is, and if they did, all they have to do is print 'non-transferable' on the coupon. No 'non-transferable' means the coupon is fair game on the open market. Caveat emptor. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
downtoearth 0 #16 June 18, 2011 I bought one off of a guy on ebay for a custom 2k3 racer paid only couple bucks for it, since i got the discount i could afford a new reserve as well! Best deal ever. The guy selling it won it and didnt need a new container and those do expire. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #17 June 18, 2011 QuoteQuoteI didn't see anyone calling anyone's integrity into question, Strange, seems to me that asking if someone's actions are morally right is pretty much the definition of questioning someone's integrity. No one has used the phrase "morally right" here in this thread, except you. If you really want to pursue this "integrity" question, then please provide exactly what was said, and in what message number, that got you started on it. That way I can examine it properly, and won't have to guess what the heck you're talking about. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stayhigh 2 #18 June 19, 2011 I bought my coupon off from someone who didn't need one, he needed cash, i needed a new rig, that is called bi-winningBernie Sanders for President 2016 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerpaul 1 #19 June 19, 2011 QuoteQuoteQuoteI didn't see anyone calling anyone's integrity into question, Strange, seems to me that asking if someone's actions are morally right is pretty much the definition of questioning someone's integrity. No one has used the phrase "morally right" here in this thread, except you. If you really want to pursue this "integrity" question, then please provide exactly what was said, and in what message number, that got you started on it. That way I can examine it properly, and won't have to guess what the heck you're talking about. The person's suggestion that one's karma is improved by giving the certificate away has the flip side that not giving it away is bad for one's karma. I found this on a website about buddhism -Karma is the law of moral causation. The theory of Karma is a fundamental doctrine in Buddhism. This belief was prevalent in India before the advent of the Buddha. Nevertheless, it was the Buddha who explained and formulated this doctrine in the complete form in which we have it today. So bringing karma into the discussion is, in fact, bringing in the question of personal morality. I don't personally find such casual statements regarding morality quite so offensive as jakee apparently does, but I can see jakee's point. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
klingeme 0 #20 June 22, 2011 QuoteOne of our jumpers won a gift certificate for 50% off a container. He has offered to sell the gift certificate to one of our newer jumpers for $300. What do you think?? Is it right to sell something that he won? Please discuss......... Does the certificate say "This certificate is non-transferable and does not apply to students or tandem Vectors." If so, it can not be sold. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
champu 1 #21 June 22, 2011 QuoteDoes the certificate say "This certificate is non-transferable and does not apply to students or tandem Vectors." If so, it can not be sold. Steve Martin: I'll have two double scotches. Flight Attendant: I'm sorry I can only sell you two drinks, two double scotches would be four drinks Steve Martin: Tell you what, I'll have a double scotch, and my friend here will have a double scotch, but you can just set them both on my tray and I'll pay for them. How 'bout that? The certificate may not be transferable but the rig is. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
klingeme 0 #22 June 23, 2011 The certificate may not be transferable but the rig is. And you'd almost certainly get away with it...... But then there is the Karma thing and a little bit of "screwing over the intent of the manufacturer", but then again, you'd get a good deal on a rig..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
champu 1 #23 June 23, 2011 If you sponsor gear in full or in part for someone, and they turn around and sell it, I can understand that you'd be upset, and I can understand why said person might have a hard time getting anyone to sponsor them in the future. If you sponsor an event and offer discount certificates as raffle prizes or awards (that's my understanding of how most of these certificates come into circulation) I'm at a little bit of a loss as to how selling the certificate (or using it to buy a rig for someone else and splitting the savings with them) screws over the intent of the manufacturer. Maybe I'm not as in touch with the intent of manufacturers when they provide these certificates to events as I think I am. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
klingeme 0 #24 June 23, 2011 You are probably right. We probably did put it on the bottom of the certificate by mistake. Actually, we send he certificates out to help boogie organizers, but they piss our dealers off, because they lose potential sales. UPTs certificates are non-transferable (as stated on the certificate) and you can ask anyone who has tried to sell one here on DZ.com. They have gotten a message from me to remove the classified ad. Mark Klingelhoefer United Parachute Technologies Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nbblood 0 #25 June 23, 2011 So is a condition of the certificate that the owner can never sell the rig they obtain? Seems like that's essentially what's happening by transferring the certificate. Just passing the certificate instead of the rig. If that is the condition, and it was even remotely enforceable (which it's not), then the certificate isn't worth the paper it's printed on in my opinion. Here's a coupon that will get you back to a dealer's price, but you can never sell the rig......um, no thanks. Sounds to me like that really hasn't been thought through with any common sense applied. Then again, it's just my opinion.Blues, Nathan If you wait 'til the last minute, it'll only take a minute. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
