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I was at the DZ today and was listening to a couple of "up-jumpers" talking about AAD's.

Good, bad, yes, no... etc,etc,etc.

So here is my question...

If a jumper that only jumped every other couple of weekends, or once a month, who jumped solo, and opened high(5-6k) on every jump, would he/she really need an AAD?

Why or why not?

Thanx
-A
"Don't keep your pilot chute a secret"

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>If a jumper that only jumped every other couple of weekends, or once
>a month, who jumped solo, and opened high(5-6k) on every jump, would
>he/she really need an AAD?

People rarely need an AAD, and even then it is more likely to fire because a) they went low or b) they forgot to pull than "getting knocked out" (which is the standard reason for getting one.) The decision to use one is up to each jumper.

However, jumpers who are uncurrent are more likely to need such backups than jumpers who are current.

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Think about it...

An AAD is not there for when everything goes right, it's there for when one of any number of things which could prevent you from deploying your parachute happens. Regardless of how often you jump, your next one could be the one that somebody tracks into you (or something else that renders you unconscious) and knocks you out just above your pull altitude.

Ask yourself this; if you only drive your car once a month, should you still have car insurance? I vote yes on both.
"Always do right. This will gratify some people and astonish the rest" ~Samuel Clemens

MB#4300
Dudeist Skydiver #68

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I agree with Bill about every body making choices and the need maybe being higher with un-current jumpers. That said, I am a very current jumper and though I did not need my AAD and I did nothing wrong, I very easily could have needed it last weekend. (See pic) I am a little sore but freefall and wind makes the blood spread out pretty good and look worse. It was still a good knock and things like it have resulted in much worse then some blood on your face and being able to smile about it on the ground. Sandy Wambach for one comes to mind.

Mitigating risks is always a balancing act. I had an AAD with me for this jump and the pic shows the results. Note I was wearing a hard helmet, not full face. After I was hit and while going through my "Am I OK checklist” the AAD was one question I asked myself while in Freefall. I have multiple rigs and not every one has an AAD.

When you need them you need them but they are a fantastic option for unforeseen events. If those never happened then WOW would the world be a different place. I prefer an AAD but have made easily 1000+ jumps w/o one. The first one I purchased was after an exit line up out of an Otter 12 years ago or so. Wearing a full-face helmet and when diving out the guy in front went into a good dive, his feet came up and his heel clocked me right under the chin. I was loopy for the entire jump, spitting blood on the ground, I was not 100% there and looking back on it, it could have been fatal for me. This is what I call an unforeseen event. You cant see them coming but can only prepare the best we can to give ourselves the best chance..

Do I say I have to jump with an AAD or I won’t jump, obviously not, but having said that I prefer to have the back up there.

Scott C.
"He who Hesitates Shall Inherit the Earth!"

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Every jumper should have an AAD.



Why ? you say every jumper should have one but don't give any reason why ?

this is an adult sport, it's each jumpers decision in my opinion. Just like its each jumpers decision to gage the risk if they want to swoop , do big ways , CReW, Downsize, what conditions they jump in ect ect ect. If they don't know the risks or don't wan't to make a decision then it's time to revaluate their continued time in the sport.
SO this one time at band camp.....

"Of all the things I've lost I miss my mind the most."

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I jump with an AAD because I am aware of the fact that I am far from perfect.

Despite all of my training, and EP practices I don't think it is impossible for me to keep pulling that hard pull even though I have tried to burn in my brain that in the event that I have a hard pull I am to try twice and then pull the reserve.

I also don't think it is impossible that some day I might really screw up and lose alt awareness in a huge way.

It doesn't change the way I skydive one bit, but improving my odds in the chance of a screw up isn't a bad thing.
"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall"
=P

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I dont like being preached to on the AAD matter.

Im not against them but beig told to use one is BS.



I do hear your argument about being preached to ... I feel the same way about seat belts and air bags.

I fought wearing a seat belt for a long time for exactly the same reason ;)

I guess the Governor of NJ felt the same way but I'll bet he wears a seat belt next time :P

As a 'non-student' you do have a choice ... problem comes in when you find yourself at 120mph + and 1000' of altitude and you're unable to pull the reserve handle ... and I'm betting you won't be preaching about it afterwards B|

Btw .. I really don't care if you use one or not .. it's your life ... but for me the "choice" is simple.

I hate reformed alcoholics, PETA and non-smoking laws ... even though the message may be valid the delivery really pisses me of sometimes >:(

My reply may seem a little sarcastic but I really hate being preached to about what's best for me too :P
99% of the people on this earth are sheep ... dare to be different

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I have two rigs...one with, one without.

It's funny how I'm much more concious of avoiding potential trouble situations in the "without" rig.
My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

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An AAD is a backup device, just in case. As long as you keep up on all your procedures and know your rig then you shouldn't need one.

Hopefully for me mine was ON that day...CLICKY to the thread

Still have to jump without from time to time... But I usually jump WITH.
scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

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I hate reformed alcoholics, PETA and non-smoking laws ... even though the message may be valid the delivery really pisses me of sometimes >:(



As an alcoholic thats been sober 12 years and doesn't tell ANYONE how
they should live, (or what they should be smoking or drinking) and I'm here to tell you that your position is overly judgmental and ill informed, and that you appear to be prejudiced against entire groups based on a few annoying experiences.

Is this your SOP? I hope not for your sake.

As an recovering alcoholic, I'd be willing to bet a lot of money that I have FAR more direct experience with recovering alcoholics than you do, and I can tell you for a fact that we (as a general rule) intentionally avoid telling other people what we may think of their habits.

I'm sure you are a great guy. I hope that you find a way to become less judgmental (and more educated on the subjects that you preach about) though, cuz your comments don't exactly put you in a favorable light.

I'll take an alcoholic over a bigot any day of the week
__

My mighty steed

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I personally know two jumpers who are alive because of their AADs. The first one had a total mal on his main, and couldn't get his reserve out (he didn't pull the handle far enough.)

The second was hit by another jumper and was temporarily paralyzed so he couldn't pull anything.
There are battered women? I've been eating 'em plain all of these years...

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I hate reformed alcoholics, PETA and non-smoking laws ... even though the message may be valid the delivery really pisses me of sometimes >:(



As an alcoholic thats been sober 12 years and doesn't tell ANYONE how
they should live, (or what they should be smoking or drinking) and I'm here to tell you that your position is overly judgmental and ill informed, and that you appear to be prejudiced against entire groups based on a few annoying experiences.

Is this your SOP? I hope not for your sake.

As an recovering alcoholic, I'd be willing to bet a lot of money that I have FAR more direct experience with recovering alcoholics than you do, and I can tell you for a fact that we (as a general rule) intentionally avoid telling other people what we may think of their habits.

I'm sure you are a great guy. I hope that you find a way to become less judgmental (and more educated on the subjects that you preach about) though, cuz your comments don't exactly put you in a favorable light.

I'll take an alcoholic over a bigot any day of the week


Sorry it sounded judgemental .. it was not meant to be ... but you're absloutley WRONG about this statement

Quote

As an recovering alcoholic, I'd be willing to bet a lot of money that I have FAR more direct experience with recovering alcoholics than you do, and I can tell you for a fact that we (as a general rule)



I doubt that very much ... seeng how I have not had a drik in 10+ years either, I grew up with an alcoholic who was never "recovering", I've watched several of my cousins ruin there lives with alcohol. I've got lot's of first hand experience and I know how much work it takes to remain "recovering" ...

Again please accept my appology ... my comment was not intended to slam any group .. it was simply at attempt to illustrate how we ALL tend to preach sometimes and we usually don't like getting preached at.

Even a GOOD message can be trampled on by the delivery :-)

kevin
99% of the people on this earth are sheep ... dare to be different

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> Every jumper should have an AAD.

I can think of one jumper who is now dead because of his AAD, and several who have been injured. I know there's at least one jump I was on where I was very happy to NOT have one.

OTOH, they've saved a lot of people, and are generally good things to have. Jumpers should take all that into consideration when deciding whether to use an AAD or not.

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"I know there's at least one jump I was on where I was very happy to NOT have one. "

Would you mind elaborating on your experience? Lately I've been wondering what types of situations having an AAD would be detrimental.




Demonstration jumps for one...not all but on some.


I also don't normally use an RSL for the same reason.










~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

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>Would you mind elaborating on your experience?

Opened quite low on a 4-way due to stupidity. I took my second rig that had no AAD and a fast-opening main (a Nova.) It slammed open as it always did, and I was open by about 1200 feet. Landed OK. Two other people had cypreses; both fired (they opened at about 1000 feet.) One guy cut away his biplane and had his main foul his reserve as it was leaving. It cleared (fortunately) and he landed OK. The other landed a side-by-side. He tried to flare both, they separated and started to downplane, and he sprained his ankle.

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Opened quite low on a 4-way due to stupidity. I took my second rig that had no AAD and a fast-opening main (a Nova.) It slammed open as it always did, and I was open by about 1200 feet. Landed OK. Two other people had cypreses; both fired (they opened at about 1000 feet.) One guy cut away his biplane and had his main foul his reserve as it was leaving. It cleared (fortunately) and he landed OK. The other landed a side-by-side. He tried to flare both, they separated and started to downplane, and he sprained his ankle.



This and popsjumper being more aware of safety with his non-aad equipped rig could equally be arguments for NOT having reserves.....Would improve everyones safety awareness, cure the two out problem and increase the injury/death rate....
The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits." -- Albert Einstein

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This and popsjumper being more aware of safety with his non-aad equipped rig could equally be arguments for NOT having reserves.....Would improve everyones safety awareness, cure the two out problem and increase the injury/death rate....



Huh? :S










~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

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