Dropzone Politics

[SkymonkeyONE 3]

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BASE . . .

NickD BASE 194

That's funny, Nick!

[valcore 0]

Start your own DZ and then you can decide on if you want it there or not.

The most terrifying words in the English language are: ‘I'm from the government and I'm here to help’. ~Ronald Reagan

30,000,000 legal firearm owners killed no one yesterday.

[CSpenceFLY 1]

***I've walked past him as i've got to the DZ and said hello and he's just ignored me before. He's got almost 10,000 jumps and i might just say to him "if you're that bored with it all, why don't you just fuck off mate" and see what he says



Maybe he just doesn't like you.I know after the limited exposure that I have had to you I would not go out of my way to speak either.

[GTAVercetti 0]

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Skydive AZ has very little politics between jumpers. Any person who acts like a Sky God pretty much gets put in their place very quickly and so jumping there is very enjoyable.

For a large dz, the number of true locals (those that live there) is quite small and the community is not judgemental - it is like a little family.

As far as managerial politics go, I have no idea.

Every dz has politics - some more/less than others.

I have been there one time in the beginning of the off season so I saw the small community. It was fun, but there was still plenty of smack talking and gossip going on...just like anywhere else.

Why yes, my license number is a palindrome. Thank you for noticing.

[skybytch 259]

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nope, he can carry on in his own sweet way i suppose

Yeah, he can, whether you approve or not.

It's nice when people with loads of experience are social types who enjoy sharing their knowledge. Because it's nice doesn't mean that every person with loads of experience must share what they know.

I can think of a bunch of reasons why the guy you're talking about might not be rushing to be your buddy. He could have a hearing problem (10,000 jumps = a lot of time in a noisy aircraft) and didn't hear your greeting. He could have seen so many new jumpers come and go over the years that he's waiting to see if you hang around before he puts out any effort. He could have spent the last 10 years giving back and have chosen for this season to spend some time jumping for himself.

Or, he could just be an asshole. You don't have to have 10,000 jumps to be one of those, though.

[GTAVercetti 0]

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Or, he could just be an asshole.

With the posts around here, turn 'he' pronoun to 'you' and this could also be an explanation. Not saying its true, but it could be.

Why yes, my license number is a palindrome. Thank you for noticing.

[skydived19006 4]

Here's an idea! Break into your piggy bank, buy an airplane and start your own DZ! Yes, eventually the same shit will be going on at your DZ, but this way a lot of it will be about what an ass hole the DZO is. As DZO people will be talking about you, and you'll be left out of it! Cool huh?

Martin
DZO
Air Capital Drop Zone
Wichita Kansas

Experience is what you get when you thought you were going to get something else.

AC DZ

[StearmanR985 0]

You could always just sit back and watch.

DZ politics can be quite entertaining.

[CBRnick 0]

The closest drop zone to my home is an hours drive away if I get my finger out on my bike.

If I am intending on going to jump on saturday and stay over to jump on sunday Ill stay overnight and take part in the social scene in the evening.

If Im intending on going out with a group of biking friends for a fast blast around some twisty country lanes on Sunday morning, or I simply cant afford to jump any more that weekend, Ill complete my jumps that my budget for that weekend allows and just scoot off home after saying my goodbyes to prepare for the following days ride.

Does this make me less of a skydiver because I often dont remain as part of the evening social scene or live the dropzone dream?
According to some people posting here it does.

Or maybe it makes me less of a biker because I dont spend my life at the bike hangouts and go skydiving.
I normaly commute to work on my bike, but Ive heard it said that Im not a real biker because if its pouring down with rain I go by car instead.

Damn, now Ive got the powerkite and kite surfing community on the beach saying Im not a 'real' powerkiter/kitesurfer because I spend a bunch of my time skydiving and riding my bike instead of staying for the social scene on the coast.

Shit I dont even want to think what the kyak club thinks of me I spend so little time on the white water with them these days.

What a strange world we live in...
I skydive but Im not a skydiver.
I ride a fast powerful bike but Im not a biker.
I kitesurf and windsurf, but apparantly I cant call myself a surfer.
I used to run grade four rapids in a spud and I often used a squirt boat, but Im not an (ex?)kayaker.

I look after computer networks for a living. Am I allowed to call myself an IT professional??
Its all starting to confuse me.

C'mon people. We do this for a blast to get away from everyday stuff. We all face the same danger, the same thrill.
Sure Id like to spend every spare minute of my time at the dropzone, but Id also like to spend all my spare time on my bike.

RhondaLee, Im living my life and having a blast, and I deserve it after the crap in life Ive been through. Dont think less of me or people like me because I dont fit in with your ideal image of a skydiver. Im sure Id have a blast jumping with you if I ever met you. If your ever over in the UK Ill take you out for a ride with the bike crowd. Im sure youll love it too :)

I see this kind of elitist attitude at the dropzone near me and it causes far more damage than it should. I know people who have not taken up skydiving after trying it because they were not made welcome at the dropzone. Its not good for the sport for sure.

Artist called Ian. I have met the person you talk of, only once, but Ive met him and got on with him great.
Maybe it would pay to look at your own attitude rather than calling the bloke a wanker.
From your post Id say you have something of an attitude issue yourself. Maybe you put his back up for some reason.

As a side note, even though you didnt mention his name, from the description you gave you made it very crystal clear who you were attacking and Im suprised a mod hasnt picked it up as a personal attack, which it clearly was.
Chill out dude. Im sure youll find people get on with you better, and publicly pissing off long timers at his home dz who have a lot of friends isnt a good way to go about things.
Karma man.

Chill everyone and just enjoy life.
Trust me, im talking from experience when I tell you your lives really ARE too short to let shit like this get in the way of a good time.

Blue skies.

[billvon 2,396]

>Maybe its because im relatively new but I havent seen any politics at all.

And if you choose not to, you won't see it.

"It's all politics" is pretty much a universal excuse for things jumpers don't like. If you and a bunch of your friends are flirting with some cute chick, it's all good fun. If another group is doing it, it's a clique. If you get picked to be on a big-way, and other people do not, then it's the organizer being safety conscious and only allowing people on they are familiar with and who can do the jump safely. If you don't get picked, it's all politics. If you get there first and get more working jumps, then you're a hard worker. If you get there later and get fewer working jumps, then it's all politics.

A large part of the atmosphere at any drop zone is dependent on the observer. If they come in with an attitude that there are a lot of skygods there, that's all they will see. If they come in with an open attitude, they will see a lot more. If they listen to the gossip and chatter, then they will think that's most of what goes on. If they don't listen to it, it doesn't affect them.

So jumpers in general have a lot of choice as to how they perceive a drop zone, in my opinion. If you want it to be an escape from the real world, a place you can go and just jump, it can be that. It can be a job. It can be a place to gossip, flirt with women, drink a lot and make a fool of yourself. It can be a political morass where each comment is a slight against someone and no one likes anyone else. Each jumper plays a large part in determining what any drop zone will be for them.

[Mike111 0]

Well to be fair, i think there are other factors why that happens.

Some have to travel far to get to a DZ ( i do 3 hours) and so if the weather is bad, there is no point in hanging around when noone else is there aprt from the staff - at our DZ, although this is from my limted experience, people turn up when the weather is good, and if not they leave to dfo other things.

This idea of bondness is still there - there wasa fellow student last weekend who turned up to carry on after 6 years layoff, and we talked and got on really well. He was a very nice guy - we talked and chatted inbetween training and on the plane - we were on the same loads that day, while other experienced jumpers always said hello and how you are getting on to all of the students and there are events (not been to one yet ) liek BBq's where apperently everyoen gets together.

Modern day life now means eveyrone has more committments, and so if the weather is bad then why go and sit aroudn when theres ten jobs to be done round the house or somewhere else?

One can still ave the bond and good friends there while jumping goes on etc.

Although im very inexperienced so could be totally wrong.

[Shotgun 1]

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A large part of the atmosphere at any drop zone is dependent on the observer.

This is true... And I think it applies to most other things in life as well.

[artistcalledian 0]

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Or, he could just be an asshole.

With the posts around here, turn 'he' pronoun to 'you' and this could also be an explanation. Not saying its true, but it could be.

i'd like to think so, i don't want to have wasted my time on here

________________________________________
drive it like you stole it and f*ck the police

[PrairieDoug 0]

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you're not a skydiver, you are merely someone who skydives.

rl -- Do you consider yourself a skydiver?

[skybytch 259]

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Modern day life now means eveyrone has more committments, and so if the weather is bad then why go and sit aroudn when theres ten jobs to be done round the house or somewhere else?

You're missing out on some excellent - and free - learning opportunities by not being at the dz when the weather sucks. Same goes for post-sunset activities.

It's amazing how much free ground coaching you can get just by being around when the really good people aren't busy jumping.

[RhondaLea 3]

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Does this make me less of a skydiver because I often dont remain as part of the evening social scene or live the dropzone dream?

No. Not in and of itself.

I think that people who don't go to the dz and sit there through weather holds and hurricanes have the idea that I was being critical of them, and that's not the case. I also thought the example I gave of the guy who posted proudly to rec.skydiving about his solos and coached jumps to the exclusion of all else should have cleared that up.

Here's the question: Is everyone delighted to see you when you do show up? Then you're part of the community. The converse of that, of course, is everyone looking at you out of the corner of their eye wondering who you are when you walk onto the dz.

Think about a close-knit neighborhood. That's the model. Everyone doesn't stay home all the time and socialize--people go to work, people go shopping, people do a lot of things within the privacy of their own homes. But neighbors stay in touch, have the occasional block party, sit on each other's porches at the end of the day watching the kids play stickball. And don't forget about the creepy old lady down the block who's mean to all the kids, never says hello to any of the neighbors and is talked about in whispers because everyone thinks she keeps her husband in a trunk in the attic.

I admit it. I'm old.

The "new dz" is like a bedroom community. No one knows your name, and when lightning strikes your house and burns it down, you'd better hope you have family or enough money for an extended stay at a hotel, because the neighbors are not going to show up with an invitation to shelter, food and new clothes to get you through the bad times.

rl

If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

[RhondaLea 3]

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you're not a skydiver, you are merely someone who skydives.

rl -- Do you consider yourself a skydiver?

I no longer jump. I stopped jumping 4 years ago, and I haven't lived on the dropzone for a little over a year.

So I don't consider myself a skydiver anymore, but I maintain ties to the skydiving and base communities because I have friends within both. And when an opportunity arises for me to make a contribution to either community, I do what I can.

rl

If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

[The111 0]

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Or jump at a multitude of DZ's so that you don't see the politics.

That's what I do. It works, but I also end up never making any really close friends at any one DZ. I finally started frequenting one DZ more often than others, and am starting to see all the politics I hadn't been aware of before...

www.WingsuitPhotos.com

[rehmwa 2]

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>"It's all politics" is pretty much a universal excuse for things jumpers don't like. If you and a bunch of your friends are flirting with some cute chick, it's all good fun. If another group is doing it, it's a clique. If you get picked to be on a big-way, and other people do not, then it's the organizer being safety conscious and only allowing people on they are familiar with and who can do the jump safely. If you don't get picked, it's all politics. If you get there first and get more working jumps, then you're a hard worker. If you get there later and get fewer working jumps, then it's all politics.

A large part of the atmosphere at any drop zone is dependent on the observer. If they come in with an attitude that there are a lot of skygods there, that's all they will see. If they come in with an open attitude, they will see a lot more. If they listen to the gossip and chatter, then they will think that's most of what goes on. If they don't listen to it, it doesn't affect them.

So jumpers in general have a lot of choice as to how they perceive a drop zone, in my opinion. If you want it to be an escape from the real world, a place you can go and just jump, it can be that. It can be a job. It can be a place to gossip, flirt with women, drink a lot and make a fool of yourself. It can be a political morass where each comment is a slight against someone and no one likes anyone else. Each jumper plays a large part in determining what any drop zone will be for them.

This is absolutely perfect - much better than the stock junk you write on another forum we won't mention here.

"it's all politics" - that phrase I see mostly from arrogant new jumpers that have isolated themselves from the rest of the DZ. Also, from people too shy to ask an experienced person to jump with them. Also, from staff, but that's a different arena and I'll stick to fun jumpers.

It's a nice thing about little DZs, people pretty well go out of the way to jump with everybody because that's all we have. But just because it's harder at a big DZ doesn't mean a good attitude can help a person get better and make friends.

1 - some people jump mostly with each other because they like each other - not because they are snobs. Most of the time, if an inexperienced person actually 'asked' to jump with them, something would be worked out with a subset of that group for a couple jumps. A nicer term for cliques is "circle of close friends".

2 - people training just don't commit to newbies as often. It happens. Live with it. I like 4-way a lot with my teammates, we try really hard to set aside jumps with non-teammates because we like to see new jumpers get excited about 4-way, but it doesn't always happen. Sorry, that's how we want to spend our money. After the season ended for me, I spent every single jump for a month of weekends chasing friends on tandems and doing 2-way coaching jumps with new grads (I pay my own slot BTW for those jumps) simple freeflying with buds - it's a gas. But those newbies that quit the season early never saw that side of me and my teammates. Bet some of them have a wrong impression of us.

3 - Jumping is expensive and some people don't enjoy less skillful jumps. They will be less inclined to 'give back' to the sport. That's ok, different strokes. Makes those that do 'give back' even more popular.

4 - Complaining about a problem won't fix it - taking a rejection presonally won't fix it - , but having a good attitude and staying friendly and taking the occasional rejection in good stride will.

5 - I can attest though, to knowing quite a few people that are super cool, but once a particular set of "popular" people show up, they latch on and become real asswipes to anyone else. I wouldn't resent them, but worry more about why they are that way. In the end, it really is harmless.

Nice thing about new people - eventually a "clique" will stop improving and start doing the same tired dives over and over. New people will mix it up and get better and eventually pass them in skill. Best of both worlds, now you have a couple nicely skilled groups that can mix and match people and do even more fun stuff. Those that refuse, will see they were left behind and either quit, or decide to learn again and start having fun - both results are positive for your DZ.

I agree that big DZs have a harder problem here
I agree it's the individual jumper that defines how they feel
I think also, that having pay for coaching off of student status stinks, though, and perpetuates it being harder to get into a good group of jumpers until the 'dues' have been paid. But it's the way it is today, so tough.

If someone doesn't like that, they might want to seriously consider a year or two at a small family-style single cessna DZ and develop that super-family knit circle of friends - then carry that attitude back to the big DZ someday and spread the happy.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[CBRnick 0]

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Here's the question: Is everyone delighted to see you when you do show up? Then you're part of the community. The converse of that, of course, is everyone looking at you out of the corner of their eye wondering who you are when you walk onto the dz.

rl

Well Ive not been skydiving long and am only just starting down the road. There are quite a few people at my 'local' dz who I dont know, but thats just because Im still a new face. There also a lot of people i do know who always make you feel welcome. Ive yet to experience any form of bad feeling towards me, but then I dont give anyone reason to have bad feelings towards me.

Something I realised while writing this reply, is that in the short time Ive been skydiving, Ive made friends in various dropzones, so that while my number of contacts across the country is still very small, I could walk onto any one of the four main dropzones in the UK I can think of and meet people who would be glad to see me and have a beer and catch up.

I guess that makes me a skydiver then by definition :)

[PrairieDoug 0]

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So I don't consider myself a skydiver anymore, but I maintain ties to the skydiving and base communities because I have friends within both. And when an opportunity arises for me to make a contribution to either community, I do what I can. rl

Fair enough... and your willingness to still make a contribution when possible is generous.

[Mike111 0]

I guess thats entirely correct, but when you live 3 hours away and you got school the next day staying is sometiems quite difficult.

i dunno,maybe when im older (only 17) I - have my own car that could change.

I think the Dz closes after jumping stops anyway! Although im not sure at all.

[rehmwa 2]

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i dunno,maybe when im older (only 17) I guess it might change when there is more flexibility to be able to hang around will change.

that's cute

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[Mike111 0]

No its true - when other people give you lifts to it, I certainly don't expect to wait just so I can hang around - thast just selfish!!

When one is older - there is more choice - not being an adult yet im restrcted by school, parental restrictions at time so i have to fit in with what I can or can't do.

Or, ive found another Dz only 20 min which woudl allow me to hang aroudn and help setup for the weekend - dnt ave to travel 3 hours there and 3 hours back!!!!

[frost 1]

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I've walked past him as i've got to the DZ and said hello and he's just ignored me before. He's got almost 10,000 jumps and i might just say to him "if you're that bored with it all, why don't you just fuck off mate" and see what he says

May be he had something on his mind... May be he didnt hear you... May be he was just tired. Whatever it was, please tell me, oh sensitve new jumper, why should ANYONE, let alone someone who HAS seen it all, pay attention to every single person on the DZ?

If you expect an accomplished skydiver to pay you respects now, when you have 18 jumps, I want to see how your attitude changes when you get a few thousand jumps and see hundreds of new jumpers come and go. IF you get there of course.

SoFPiDaRF - School of Fast Progress in Downsizing and Radical Flying. Because nobody knows your skills better than you.