nigel99 301 #1 August 1, 2011 A couple of thoughts regarding canopy flight and the current trend. The culture is acceptance of higher wing-loadings at all levels. Secondly when one looks at the reward system for success it promotes swooping. As far as I am aware the USPA Canopy Piloting Nationals are judged on "speed, distance and accuracy". Does good old fashioned accuracy still exist at a national and international level? Business culture change programs tend to follow the following 4 steps: 1) Educate and encourage 2) Define expectations 3) Acknowledge and celebrate success 4) Reward success 1) As far as I can tell the USPA is doing a good job of trying to educate. How do we encourage people to slow down and realise that they don't need to be small to be cool? 2) I think that the SIM sets reasonable expectations where it outlines the wing-loadings and recommendations for advanced training. Considering that these are largely ignored, it makes no sense to make them more stringent. We just need a culture where they are actually implemented. 3 & 4) I think that the USPA or clubs should have an annual award for "contribution to the sport" or "safety concious jumper" in each license category. Setup expectations on what will win that award and then promote it.Also set an example, draw attention to high profile members of the sport who jump conservative wing loadings Currently the trend for size is downwards and deaths are going up. Change is instigated one person at a time. Next time a newbie tells you they are never going to swoop, please don't give them a lecture how everyone says that and then changes their minds. Point out that it is fine, and there are other disciplines that they can find enjoyable.Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rigless 0 #2 August 1, 2011 No."All limits are self imposed." Icarus Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 4 #3 August 1, 2011 QuoteNo. That was an insightful but totally useless response. SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NWFlyer 2 #4 August 1, 2011 I started a similar thread a few years ago. I think you're spot-on - we are creating a culture that sets the expectation that anything other than downsizing is less acceptable."There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rigless 0 #5 August 1, 2011 Quote That was an insightful but totally useless response. Kinda like this thread. Fighting what has been around so long is like fighting windmills.."All limits are self imposed." Icarus Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #6 August 1, 2011 I'll be a part of that upsizing trend. I just bought a parachute 30 sq feet bigger than I've been jumping on a regular basis. :-)---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #7 August 1, 2011 QuoteQuote That was an insightful but totally useless response. Kinda like this thread. Fighting what has been around so long is like fighting windmills.. Kinda like fighting ego-centrism has been around so long it's like fighting windmills. It's no wonder you post anonymously.My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rigless 0 #8 August 1, 2011 Since we're on this topic, how you you fill out your profile too? In the right way.. "All limits are self imposed." Icarus Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DSE 5 #9 August 1, 2011 QuoteI'll be a part of that upsizing trend. I just bought a parachute 30 sq feet bigger than I've been jumping on a regular basis. :-) Ditto. I've upsized from the 135 to a 150, and currently under a 170 Pulse while rehabbing my knee. Some folks are into the skydive, and the parachute is merely a mechanism to safely get one back on the ground. Swooping does not need to be a component. The only other reason I can think of for downsizing, is some folks want teenie rigs on their backs cuz they look more cool. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rigless 0 #10 August 1, 2011 Quote Some folks are into the skydive, and the parachute is merely a mechanism to safely get one back on the ground. Swooping does not need to be a component. Some folks are into swooping and freefall is merely a component of the skydive. Quote The only other reason I can think of for downsizing, is some folks want teenie rigs on their backs cuz they look more cool. And that is their choice as upsizing is yours "All limits are self imposed." Icarus Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cocheese 0 #11 August 1, 2011 The new slogan should be "Up yours" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #12 August 1, 2011 QuoteSome folks are into the skydive, and the parachute is merely a mechanism to safely get one back on the ground. Swooping does not need to be a component. And some folks skydive because they are into the parachute. The skydive is just a mechanism to get to go swoop.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fossg 0 #13 August 1, 2011 I just realized that with the rig I jump I will never be cool.... dang it all.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rigless 0 #14 August 1, 2011 I'm cool with people who jump whatever the hell they want / can / need.. I'm not cool with people who enforce certain rules because it fits their agenda / way of fun / personal fears.."All limits are self imposed." Icarus Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,741 #15 August 1, 2011 >Some folks are into swooping and freefall is merely a component of the skydive. And there's no problem with that. The problem we've been seeing more and more often over the past few years are the people who think that they deserve to be able to swoop after every jump. We're learning that swooping is its own discipline that needs dedication, training - and often its own pass. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DaVinciflies 0 #16 August 1, 2011 Quote>Some folks are into swooping and freefall is merely a component of the skydive. And there's no problem with that. The problem we've been seeing more and more often over the past few years are the people who think that they deserve to be able to swoop after every jump. We're learning that swooping is its own discipline that needs dedication, training - and often its own pass. Entitlement to swoop every time is one problem. Another is people who try to teach themselves to swoop. There are ways to reduce the risk of swooping, but it requires some (knowledgeable) instruction on canopy flight and a willingness to pull high a lot of the time and practice turns, aborts, flares etc, etc in clear obstacle free airspace. I think a lot of people are trying to re-invent the wheel and many are paying the price. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rigless 0 #17 August 1, 2011 Quote Another is people who try to teach themselves to swoop. And that is another topic.. People who are knowledgeable and refuse to teach how to do it properly, because "it's not the time for that yet". Again, human psychology, the more you refuse / deny / enforce something, the more people want to disobey.."All limits are self imposed." Icarus Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wings-n-Things 0 #18 August 1, 2011 Looking forward to buying and jumping a 190.Card carrying member of the Nanny State Liberation Front Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fencebuster 7 #19 August 1, 2011 I concur . . . . On a day in which I upsized my "fun" canopy from a Pulse 170 to a Pulse 190, I had a hard landing on my Sabre2 260 loaded at 1.1. In my view, currency, or the lack of it in my case, was a significant cause of the hard landing along with a little complacency about my currency and over-estimation of my abilities. Then a series of mistakes/bad choices and you have a hard landing that could have ended my skydiving. There is no "routine" skydive -- any one of them can kill you. I am just glad that I was on my 260 rather than the 190 as the confluence of canopy flight judgment mistakes and lack of currency came together, as the outcome might have been different.Charlie Gittins, 540-327-2208 AFF-I, Sigma TI, IAD-I MEI, CFI-I, Senior Rigger Former DZO, Blue Ridge Skydiving Adventures Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #20 August 1, 2011 Quote>Some folks are into swooping and freefall is merely a component of the skydive. And there's no problem with that. The problem we've been seeing more and more often over the past few years are the people who think that they deserve to be able to swoop after every jump. We're learning that swooping is its own discipline that needs dedication, training - and often its own pass. And that's what many of us do. Trying to set the example and have our canopy control students set the example. Like the kid throwing starfishes back into the ocean, we can't help everyone, but I can help this one...and this one...and this one...--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 4 #21 August 1, 2011 Quote I'm cool with people who jump whatever the hell they want / can / need.. I'm not cool with people who enforce certain rules because it fits their agenda / way of fun / personal fears.. And that is called chaos and so far it ain’t working for shit. Got any other ideas. SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rigless 0 #22 August 2, 2011 Seems like your "order" isn't doing any better for you either.."All limits are self imposed." Icarus Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 4 #23 August 2, 2011 QuoteSeems like your "order" isn't doing any better for you either.. And what "order" would that be? SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rigless 0 #24 August 2, 2011 All the current rules and the new ones you're trying to think off regarding CP.. Otherwise you all wouldn't be constantly crying and complaining here about this, change this, change that, enforce this and that.."All limits are self imposed." Icarus Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 4 #25 August 2, 2011 QuoteAll the current rules and the new ones you're trying to think off regarding CP.. Otherwise you all wouldn't be constantly crying and complaining here about this, change this, change that, enforce this and that.. Do you have any links to me saying change this, change that, enforce this and that? The only rule I am for is don't be stupid and fly your canopy into the ground or another jumper. It’s real simple but some people are to fucking dumb to get it. SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
