jcolborn48 0 #1 August 1, 2011 Does anyone make a 9-Cell in a F-111? Or, is there a F-111 Canopy that is pretty responsive? I'm looking for a 190-210. Thanks for the help! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theonlyski 3 #2 August 1, 2011 QuoteDoes anyone make a 9-Cell in a F-111? Or, is there a F-111 Canopy that is pretty responsive? I'm looking for a 190-210. Thanks for the help! Why?"I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890 I'm an asshole, and I approve this message Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theplummeter 14 #3 August 2, 2011 QuoteDoes anyone make a 9-Cell in a F-111? Or, is there a F-111 Canopy that is pretty responsive? I'm looking for a 190-210. Thanks for the help! Flight Concepts still makes a complete line of F111 9 cell canopies. http://flightconceptsint.com/classic/9-cell-classic Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zlew 0 #4 August 2, 2011 I was visiting the PD factory last month, and they told me that they still make the PD9 for the military. I"m not sure if they sell it to the public..but might be worth the call if you really wanted one (I"m not sure I can imagine why...but to each his own I guess). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jumpdude 0 #5 August 2, 2011 QuoteDoes anyone make a 9-Cell in a F-111? Or, is there a F-111 Canopy that is pretty responsive? I'm looking for a 190-210. Thanks for the help! I jump a Falcon that is F111 and have had very good luck with it. The only problem I have had is the arrogant jumpers who wanna laugh at it. I've done probably 100 or so demo's with it and had absolutely no problem and usually land on or really close to the target. One demo was my front yard for my kid's birthday, We had 100ft x 75 ft of usable open space and 40 ft trees all the way around and wires down one side, Two of us were using F111 and two were using ZP, Myself and the other jumper using the F111 and landed within 3 ft of dead center, one of the ZP guys surfed through the yard and the other landed next door in the neighbor's larger yard. IMO, Sure! ZP is nice, but F111 works just fine!Refuse to Lose!!! Failure is NOT an option! 1800skyrideripoff.com Nashvilleskydiving.org Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
beowulf 1 #6 August 2, 2011 There is nothing wrong with F111 canopies, they just don't last as long as a ZP canopy. My first canopy was a 150sqft PD 9 cell. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zlew 0 #7 August 3, 2011 I don't think there is anything wrong with F-111...I just think think that modern canopy fabrics and designs have come so far that there really aren't many strong arguments to prefer something like a PD9 over a ZP wing. Once upon a time they would open better than ZP, were more simple to pack etc. , but I don't think those arguments are as strong today. I don't think there is anything "wrong" with them, but I can't think of a reason to seek one out. There are several hybrid wings out there that have ZP and non ZP that offer some benefits in pack volume and fly great. I'd be interested to hear why the OP was specifically looking for ZP. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jumpdude 0 #8 August 3, 2011 I do agree with you that ZP may be a superior product in a lot of areas, but it's possible that the OP may be a beginner or someone on a really low budget and wants to get his own equipment and learned that he can acquire an F111 cheaper than a ZP. That's just some possibilities. I got my rig for $400 on ebay when I first started jumping, and got almost 600 safe and injury/incident free jumps on it and includes several paying Demo's, so I'd say that's a pretty good return on my investment considering the only expense it has incurred was the $350 for the upgrade from the Sentinnel to the Cypress and of course, as with all rigs, reserve repacks.Refuse to Lose!!! Failure is NOT an option! 1800skyrideripoff.com Nashvilleskydiving.org Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Thedivingdog 0 #9 August 3, 2011 I am still on my first rig, a cheapo Vector 2 with a PD 170. Honestly, I'm pretty happy with it. Some said that it would not be that great in the AZ summer, at 3500 msl no less! But knock on wood, landings have been fine. The rig spent most of its life in a closet, and is in excellent shape. It just took the right guy to get it to come out Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcolborn48 0 #10 August 4, 2011 QuoteI'd be interested to hear why the OP was specifically looking for ZP. I was given a javelin j3 with a raven 245 in it. The 245 fits....barely, grommets don't line up. I've jumped it, but I would like to get something a little smaller, that would fit a little better, and maybe be a little sportier. I'm relatively new to the game, just got my B license. Have been jumping a 210 zp. The biggest zp that will fit is a170, and I'm not ready to go that small. Cost is the ultimate issue, so I was hoping to get around a 200 f111. Hope that helps explain things a little more. I appreciate the feedback Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dragon2 0 #11 August 4, 2011 You could look for a 2nd hand hybrid canopy like a silhouette or pulse 190/210 (?) as these pack quite small, and are way more fun and easier to fly than an old F111 canopy (although of course not quite as cheap). ciel bleu, Saskia Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jurgencamps 0 #12 August 4, 2011 QuoteQuoteI'd be interested to hear why the OP was specifically looking for ZP. I was given a javelin j3 with a raven 245 in it. The 245 fits....barely, grommets don't line up. I've jumped it, but I would like to get something a little smaller, that would fit a little better, and maybe be a little sportier. I'm relatively new to the game, just got my B license. Have been jumping a 210 zp. The biggest zp that will fit is a170, and I'm not ready to go that small. Cost is the ultimate issue, so I was hoping to get around a 200 f111. Hope that helps explain things a little more. I appreciate the feedback Also know that a big old (worn out) F111 canopy fulfills the size requirement but probably does not land well anymore. I have seen it more than once, light jumpers under bigger old worn out canopies still crash-landing because of the lack flare power. A question, do the grommets of a javelin have to line up ? Gr Jurgen Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DrewEckhardt 0 #13 August 4, 2011 QuoteQuoteI'd be interested to hear why the OP was specifically looking for ZP. I was given a javelin j3 with a raven 245 in it. The 245 fits....barely, grommets don't line up. I've jumped it, but I would like to get something a little smaller, that would fit a little better, and maybe be a little sportier. I'm relatively new to the game, just got my B license. Have been jumping a 210 zp. The biggest zp that will fit is a170, No. There isn't an appreciable difference in pack volume between F111 and ZP although it takes a little less skill to get an F111 canopy into the same space. Where the canopies are thrown into a cylinder and compressed with a weight (as opposed to being folded with some order with air escaping through the stitching holes) the pack volume difference between ZP and F111 is within normal manufacturing tolerances. For instance the PIA TS-104 study shows Spectra lined PD-150s at 382 cubic inches and Sabre 150s at 398 - just 4% smaller at an identical 159 square feet measured. Dacron (common on F111 canopies) and Spectra (more common on ZP canopies) make a real difference with the ZP canopy probably packing smaller due to the usual line choice. Where the container fits a 245 F111 seven cell canopy you can definitely fit a 230 ZP 9 cell. That said, a J3 is built for a 170 square foot canopy whether made out of F111 (Officially a 160 or Raven I with a PD 160 measured at 166-174 square feet by PIA and Raven I claimed to be a 182 but measuring 169-172 square feet) or ZP (Officially 170, with a Sabre 170 measured at 171-179 square feet). Anything bigger is going to be very tight. Live with it or swap for a bigger container. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zlew 0 #14 August 4, 2011 Great info (maybe one of the best replies I have ever seen on DZ.com)! Not that I would recommend it... but if pack volume is the main issue... and he is already jumping a main that is also a reserve (Raven), He could get an Optimum. It wouldn't be cheap, but they pack a size or so smaller. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcolborn48 0 #15 August 4, 2011 Quote Where the container fits a 245 F111 seven cell canopy you can definitely fit a 230 ZP 9 cell. Anything bigger is going to be very tight. Live with it or swap for a bigger container. Awesome response, tons of info, let me see if I can boil this down to the info I'm looking for, and correct me if I am wrong......If a 245 F111 seven cell fits, you are saying the equivalent would be something close to a 230 ZP 9cell? So then a 190-210 ZP 9 cell should fit just fine? Ideally I would like a ZP 9 cell, but I thought I needed to go with F111 to make it fit into the container I'm using. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dragon2 0 #16 August 5, 2011 QuoteQuote Where the container fits a 245 F111 seven cell canopy you can definitely fit a 230 ZP 9 cell. Anything bigger is going to be very tight. Live with it or swap for a bigger container. Awesome response, tons of info, let me see if I can boil this down to the info I'm looking for, and correct me if I am wrong......If a 245 F111 seven cell fits, you are saying the equivalent would be something close to a 230 ZP 9cell? So then a 190-210 ZP 9 cell should fit just fine? Ideally I would like a ZP 9 cell, but I thought I needed to go with F111 to make it fit into the container I'm using. It says here a J3 is made for a ZP170 max. And a 160 reserve. ciel bleu, Saskia Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zlew 0 #17 August 5, 2011 He may need to see if he can borrow someone's 190 or 210 and try it out to see if it fits. That seems like a huge difference (240 in it now, designed for a 170), that just ZP material wouldn't account for. If he can find someone who will let them hook up a 290 or 210 and pack it up to see how it fits...that might be the best way to go. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DrewEckhardt 0 #18 August 5, 2011 QuoteGreat info (maybe one of the best replies I have ever seen on DZ.com)! Not that I would recommend it... but if pack volume is the main issue... and he is already jumping a main that is also a reserve (Raven), He could get an Optimum. It wouldn't be cheap, but they pack a size or so smaller. No. Raven and Super Raven canopies have bridle attachments for use as mains. Most reserves (PDR, Raven Dash-M, Tempo, Smart, etc.) do not. While you could theoretically modify one, $1000 + for a used Optimum plus rigging labor to put in the necessary reinforcements is more than you'd spend on a proper sized used container and would be a lot more expensive over the long run since you'd eliminate its resale value as a reserve and no one would want it as a main. The right option is to trade the container+reserve for a larger suitable combination (this shouldn't be hard unless the free rig had hideous colors or an odd sized harness), sell the main, and buy a used ZP main with a few hundred jumps on its current line set (not enough to be out of trim, and with enough life left that if the original poster puts a few hundred jumps on it before down-sizing it'll be easier to sell because the following owner won't need to re-line it) When the original poster isn't ready for a 170 main he's not ready for a 170 reserve where his first jump is likely to be an off-airport landing under less than ideal situations. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DrewEckhardt 0 #19 August 5, 2011 Quote So then a 190-210 ZP 9 cell should fit just fine? Ideally I would like a ZP 9 cell, but I thought I needed to go with F111 to make it fit into the container I'm using. If you can make a 245 F111 canopy fit you can definitely make a 230 ZP canopy fit or 190-210 although I wouldn't go as far as to say either option is "fine" (it was built for a 170). You want to trade the container for one in a more appropriate size, sell your Raven, and buy a used ZP main in the right size. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcolborn48 0 #20 August 6, 2011 Thanks so much for the input, these are all the opinions I was looking for, I came to the right place. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
