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douwanto

The New Skyride??????

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There's not much to tell here. We've had zoning issues with the county. Due to the problems, the airport owners have decided to take the airport in a new direction. I'm sure you guys will find a way to twist this into something much more. I encourage everyone to call the airport manager and do your due diligence on me. I'm not perfect, but I think you will be hard pressed to find anyone to call me a liar or a cheater.

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There's not much to tell here. We've had zoning issues with the county. Due to the problems, the airport owners have decided to take the airport in a new direction. I'm sure you guys will find a way to twist this into something much more. I encourage everyone to call the airport manager and do your due diligence on me. I'm not perfect, but I think you will be hard pressed to find anyone to call me a liar or a cheater.



I didn't call you a liar or a cheater, I did imply that you are using the same strong armed tactics as sLyride to get the DZO's to sign on. Had you done this before sLyride, it may have been a huge success, but being that you are about 10 years late and $75,000 short, I think you're in for a major uphill climb.
I don't know if 1800skyrideripoff.com is actually doing much to educate the public about the sLyride scam since it only gets around 1,000 uniques a week, but hopefully you won't build a portfolio for PROSkydivingripoff.com.

No,,,, I don't have that one.:D
Refuse to Lose!!!
Failure is NOT an option!
1800skyrideripoff.com
Nashvilleskydiving.org

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I know my word does not mean anything to you guys, but I assure you we are not going to be the next SkyRide. PROskydiving has been very well received by the industry and DZOs are excited about having a system like this to help them streamline their operations and push reservations out to their websites. Feel free to contact any of the DZs on our network and ask them why they joined - it's not because they are worried about us going down the street. We are very concerned about how we are perceived (the only reason I am paying attention to this thread) and are considering adjustments to make sure the industry knows that we want to create a win/win situation for everyone involved, especially the customer.

Doug

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I will say that, like the other guys pointed out, you made some changes to the text for the Non members, That speaks volumns, but one question I've been setting back wondering someone else would ask, and as far as I can tell, it has not been asked, so I will;
Now that your affiliation with sLyride has been exposed in a public forum, and you know who you they are and what they've done,
Do you plan to stop accepting their GC's, get what ever money is due to you from them and sever all ties to any and ALL of Cary Quattrocchi's business names? If you do plan to stop, when?

Edited to add, How can you set up a system to compete with an entity if you are an affiliate of the same entity?
Refuse to Lose!!!
Failure is NOT an option!
1800skyrideripoff.com
Nashvilleskydiving.org

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http://www.tandemrs.com/
Tandemrs as mentioned earlier appears to be a descent solution for the pitfalls of credit card processing. They charge a set up fee, then eigher $2 per tandem, or $95 flat monthly rate. And damned if it even allows the DZO to set a deposit fee. I looked at Skydive City who uses the service, they charge $25 for the deposit as opposed to a 100% up front.

Interesting, and nothing like Proskydiving, or Skyride.
Experience is what you get when you thought you were going to get something else.

AC DZ

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After reading this thread, I have thought about it more than ever, but I've never considered PROskydiving to be in competition with SkyRide. We are a software company focused on creating tools for DZs to be productive. We have big plans for other tools for DZOs to put in their arsenal for becoming smooth running, profitable businesses. Yes, we handle reservations, but we never deal with the customers - we've been down this road...

With regards to one of my other companies (completely unassociated financially with PROskydiving), I have to weigh everything out. I know that SkyRide is scamming people, but us ceasing to take their customers will, in no way, slow them down. I guess the justification for me has been financial as well as the idea that we can give these people a great experience out of great airplanes despite their poor decision on where to purchase their jump.

Doug

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One of the things that bothers me what happens when you looks up a state that has no Proskydiving centers.

Look at Montana. The DZs that get the big headlines are all in other states. The actual Montana dropzones are listed as at the bottom in the small print. I believe that a whuffo is not going to look for the fine print and going to miss that there are actual places, good ones, that people can jump at in Montana.

When someone selects Montana they should only get Montana dropzones, not be encouraged to go to another state.

Just my opinion.
"Where troubles melt like lemon drops, away above the chimney tops, that's where you'll find me" Dorothy

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After reading this thread, I have thought about it more than ever, but I've never considered PROskydiving to be in competition with SkyRide. We are a software company focused on creating tools for DZs to be productive. We have big plans for other tools for DZOs to put in their arsenal for becoming smooth running, profitable businesses. Yes, we handle reservations, but we never deal with the customers - we've been down this road...

With regards to one of my other companies (completely unassociated financially with PROskydiving), I have to weigh everything out. I know that SkyRide is scamming people, but us ceasing to take their customers will, in no way, slow them down. I guess the justification for me has been financial as well as the idea that we can give these people a great experience out of great airplanes despite their poor decision on where to purchase their jump.

Doug



I think you are wrong about slowing them down. Now, I'm going to intentionally contradict myself for a minute,
You are correct, you quitting them will not slow them down, but it would be a damn good start, AND, Now back to being consistent, If you quit them, and other DZO's decide that your PROSkydiving is, or can be a better system, sLyride will either go out of business or the Government will get enough reports of customers being scammed that the Fed's will put them out of business. Just my opinion...
Refuse to Lose!!!
Failure is NOT an option!
1800skyrideripoff.com
Nashvilleskydiving.org

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With regards to one of my other companies (completely unassociated financially with PROskydiving), I have to weigh everything out. I know that SkyRide is scamming people, but us ceasing to take their customers will, in no way, slow them down. I guess the justification for me has been financial as well as the idea that we can give these people a great experience out of great airplanes despite their poor decision on where to purchase their jump.

Doug



That's a load of BS and you know it. If DZ's stop working with them they might try to still sell tandems in your area, but telling people they had to drive 2 states away to TN would stop that real quick.

If DZO's really want to shut them down, stop taking their certificates. It's as simple as that. Let them try to continue to run their national presence from Cedartown and wherever in TN.

As for proskydiving.com, if you limit it to one site and stay away from the location based skydiving keyword searches, I'm not as concerned as most appear to be.
Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting
If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh.

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As a spectator to this, I've gone both ways. Sometimes you seem like a good guy and other times I've been ready to grab a torch and pitchfork.
I still don't know.
If you wanted to convince me, you would start by severing all relations with Skyride. You know they are scum, so even if it costs you money it's worth it. Next, keep working to give non participating DZ's a fair shake. Don't direct people away from them, or make ones that do participate look more legitimate. Last, don't rape the ones that do sign up. An honest business that actually helps them is worth some bucks, so take what's fair. I don't think you getting half of their profit is fair at all. I don't know what you are getting, but if you aren't greedy about it, and hopefully add some business for them, I'll take you for the good guy you seem to want to be.
But what do I know?

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. I know that SkyRide is scamming people, but us ceasing to take their customers will, in no way, slow them down.



Your dropzone and all of the DZs around you that work with skyride would be better off if skyride went away. They are stealing your business and selling it back to you.

But you feel stuck with skyride because your competitors use skyride. Your competitors are thinking the same freaking thing! They want out of skyride as much as you do! Now you can't just call your competitors and agree to dump skyride... that's probably illegal and if skyride has any money left in their lawyer piggy bank, they might sue.

So your other option is to lead by example. Dump skyride. Your competition will finally be free to do the same.

They will never go away as long as they have you convinced you need them. You existed before skyride, you'll exist after them too. Skyride did not introduce the twin otter to skydiving and they won't take it away.

But I definitely do see a comparison between skyride's tactic in this area and yours. You want DZs to believe that they need to join you or they'll get left in the dust. Once one dropzone in an area joins, all the others better join too.

Dave

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...Does anyone out there think there is any way to justify this? In person, over the phone, or via e-mail?
Lets' face it, if there was, he would have done it right here, 40 posts ago. Instead, he repeates the same boilerplate, corporate speak bullshit, and doesn't directly address any of these issues.

...In contrast to that, Doug here, who stands to profit immensly from this, has taken very little time or effort to defend his actions, and the reason for that is because he cannot.

...He has no defense to the points I have made, and his inaction is what really validates my postion.

...I see no such defense as so such defense exists.



I'm still waiting for answers to the issues raised in Post # 77.......and waiting......and waiting....

Well, I'll be dang, you are right, Dave.

I'll add:
1. Tandemrs seems to be a much more straightforward service for booking than this one. I don't see any "preferred DZ" issues...no re-directing customers from one DZ to another.

2. If chicagoland thinks that re-directing customers away from DZ A to DZ B is helping the industry, DZ A is just going to love him when it goes out of business. I don't know what to say except, "SlyRide stench".
My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

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You are correct, more and more PRO seems like an up and up honest business... but that doesn't make them a good business choice for DZs.

Others have already pointed out why, for two reasons.
1) Most DZs don't need major marketing programs unless they are competing with other major marketing programs (i.e. Skyride and PRO) Yes that is a direct similarity. Both Skyride and PRO make money by standing between potential customers and local DZs.

2) DZs could use a good online booking system, but only as a background system and not for 15-20% of the sale.
"Damn you Gravity, you win again"

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After reading this thread, I have thought about it more than ever, but I've never considered PROskydiving to be in competition with SkyRide. We are a software company focused on creating tools for DZs to be productive. We have big plans for other tools for DZOs to put in their arsenal for becoming smooth running, profitable businesses. Yes, we handle reservations, but we never deal with the customers - we've been down this road...

With regards to one of my other companies (completely unassociated financially with PROskydiving), I have to weigh everything out. I know that SkyRide is scamming people, but us ceasing to take their customers will, in no way, slow them down. I guess the justification for me has been financial as well as the idea that we can give these people a great experience out of great airplanes despite their poor decision on where to purchase their jump.

Doug



Take a look at your words again and tell us how you expect everyone to believe what an honest and trustworthy businessman you are.

You need to stop partnering with Skyride and make it known that you will not be a part of their scams and fraud if you ever expect to have a trustworthy business reputation on the proskydiving side of things. You can't just say your dropzone and proskydive business is unrelated because they are separate business entities. They are both your busineses and this is a small industry, everyone will put the connection together. Your reputation is YOU and how you run all your busineses.

I have nothing against Doug or his business model of Proskydiving. I think it could be very successful if run in an ethical way but his partnership with a company(SKYRIDE) that he knows and admits is scamming people is a cloud over his business and ethical reputation that I think will haunt him in more ways than he realizes.

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There's not much to tell here. We've had zoning issues with the county. Due to the problems, the airport owners have decided to take the airport in a new direction. I'm sure you guys will find a way to twist this into something much more. I encourage everyone to call the airport manager and do your due diligence on me. I'm not perfect, but I think you will be hard pressed to find anyone to call me a liar or a cheater.



I had the wrong comparison earlier. With a few more bars to listen to, now I realize where I've heard this song before... different key, same melody -- Rod Blagojevich. "[Play the tapes in their entirety!]"

I think he has had enough national news coverage so everyone on here has probably heard of Blagojevich (recently impeached and indicted ex-gov of Illinois). Despite what the Prosecutor believes, Blago's convinced in his own mind he's right about all the things he's done because he believes his motives are pure and in support of the little guy.

So, in this case, do some spin on it and then "call the airport manager."

As for the "due diligence" checklist, Strong Enterprises probably needs to be on that list as well.

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Are you listening to what we are saying? You said earlier in this thread something about you would rather not get beat up here in the forums, (or something to that effect), But first, when asked if you accept the sLyride GC's, yes, you did give an honest answer of "Yes", That's respectable that you were at least honest about that, BUT, the cloud, very DARK cloud is still hanging over your head and the ONLY way you are going to get rid of it is to sever your ties to sLyride. Do the right thing and lead by example.
Refuse to Lose!!!
Failure is NOT an option!
1800skyrideripoff.com
Nashvilleskydiving.org

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We are a software company focused on creating tools for DZs to be productive. We have big plans for other tools for DZOs to put in their arsenal for becoming smooth running, profitable businesses.



I suppose these new tools will also include online gear sales for the customers, online procurement for tandem/instructional gear, an online custom tshirt ordering service, online aircraft scheduling for a fleet of planes with "Proskydiving" emblazoned across the fuselage and visible in every tandem video, online access for scheduling a nationwide floating staff pool of instructors/packers/video/etc, all who are paid through your system.

Right now, you're set up to take over the front door of the DZ as well as parts of the back office.

I don't see it being a very far stretch where a DZO will wake up some morning and realize he has become nothing more than a franchise operator of Proskydiving.com.

Welcome to McDZ.....

Well, I can see some good come from this: it would be one way to solve all the USPA complaints in the industry since they'd pretty much be removed from the equation at this point...

So, should we keep USPA around kind of like the UK keeps the Royal Family? :ph34r:

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You are naming NATIONAL companies... and as for "younger tech generation" I know all about as I am a 24 y/o computer programmer.


I can refute your entire argument with one question...

What has PROskydiving.com to market skydiving?

So far that answer seems to be nothing...

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If ET books 50 tandems that month off the PRO site they pay PRO for the bookings. If not, they don't pay anything.

Would ET get these tandems anyways? I don't know and neither does anyone else.



Yes, they would get the tandems if PRO doesn't exist. Because the only thing those customers did was Google "skydive *homestate*" and should have gotten *homestate* DZ websites...

The only marketing thing that PRO has done is step in-between the DZ and their customers by doing SEO.

Now if PRO ever does start a national marketing campaign to promote skydiving (hey, is that what the USPA is for?) Then we can debate the benefits of that.

The only other thing I can say is "atleast they aren't lying". Because in my opinion they are stealing...
"Damn you Gravity, you win again"

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Plenty of other companies and business' make money being the middleman. Amazon, Travelocity, Yahoo! Shopping, Fidelity, Charles Schwab, etc. etc. All get a slice for handling the transactions between suppliers and consumers. I'll let the DZOs decide if they need a major marketing program and decide to use PRO's services. Time will tell if this works out or not and is worth the fees.
'



This scenario may be a bit off topic at first, but you will see how it relates to the thread.

Speaking of the middle man, The first year my wife and I went to the Puerto Rico Boogie, I set the whole thing up through a travel agency, paid almost $2,000 for the Air/room/car and added some of the tours and BS for an additional grand, still had food (if we ate away from the hotel) and gas for the car and of course the expenses for the Boogie itself, souvenirs for the family etc on top of what we paid the travel company. We ended up spending just under $5100, The second year we went, I went straight to American Airlines, Punta Maracayo Hotel, and AVIS, Got the same flight, even same kind of plane, Airbus 320, Nicer Hotel, 1 level up on the car, made 20 jumps more, stayed one night longer, had a lot more fun and did a lot more stuff in PR and only spent just over $3700. We got the air for $387, car for $129 and the Hotel was around $600 and we did the tour stuff and spent a hell of a lot less (I'd rather stayed at the Boogie).
It was $1400 less to deal straight with the companies. That's the difference between not knowing and knowing about the middle man.

That was one person (couple) on one trip, so how much does the middle man make in the travel industry? Scale that down to the Skydiving industry and those middle men still make a fat bank roll.
Refuse to Lose!!!
Failure is NOT an option!
1800skyrideripoff.com
Nashvilleskydiving.org

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There's still a big difference. You chose to go to a travel agency. You knowingly used their service so you wouldn't have to go through all those steps.

Skyride is the travel agency that pretends to be the airline. Proskydiving isn't quite there. They don't pretend to be something that they are not. As a software company that provides a service, fine... let DZOs decide if it's worth the money. My DZ has online tandem booking and gift certificate purchases already. We have no need for the software company.

But proskydiving is also a marketing company. If they want to be useful to the world of skydiving, they need to increase the number of tandems being done across the country. Otherwise they are doing what skyride does... directing existing customers from one location to another location. That's useless in the big picture.

A national marketing campaign could be useful. It could increase tandems everywhere. But I think that'd take another Point Break. Not a car driving around chicago that says PRO Skydiving on it.

I think proskydiving needs a focus if they don't want to become another skyride. Either they do software or they do marketing. I'd stick with software. If that's the plan, they don't need the fancy website that proudly lists their members and not so proudly lists "others." Dropzones should buy their service like they buy manifest software.

But it looks to me like their entire setup is designed to intercept web searches and sell tandems back to dropzones that would have been otherwise found if the web search hadn't been intercepted. DZ's better sign up to get a nice listing or they will look like crap to potential customers. And eventually we all find our dropzones in the same shoes as CSC... can't dump proskydiving because our competitors use them.

Dave

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No website would equal no problem.


No website means less people book jumps which means less revinue for the DZ's! Why do you think virtually every company in the world has some website. Even the natural gas compressor manufacturer I work for not only has a website but pays to have it listed on other websites so that more people know of our existance and, as a result, we get more business which offsets the cost significantly. Its no different here. Its a way of reaching a larger customer base and a method of satisfying the customer and giving them what they want which means higher revinues. There's no lieing involved.....its just good business....its just meeting customer demands.

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