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packaho

Contact with jump plane after exit

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Yesterday I did a hop n pop out of the Caravan. I like floating exits, so I decided I might as well do one. When I climbed out I thought it was a little more windy than normal, but didn't think too much about it. As soon as I left I hit some part of the plane. I whacked my hand pretty good, and I thought: "Did I really just hit the tail?"

As it turns out, normally for hop n pops the dropzone does a high speed pass while continuing to climb, but I did not know this. Jumpers inside the plane said that it looked like I hit the side of the plane along the numbers, then some part of the tail. I'm fine-only my upper arm and shoulder are a bit sore. I don't think I hit my head hard, but I sure am glad I was wearing my helmet.

I don't know if it makes a difference, but I hadn't jumped in over a month and was just really excited to get back in the air. Anyway, first and foremost this incident was my fault for not being more aware of my surroundings.

So, remember to check with the dropzone for their procedures on any kind of jump you might do, and always expect the unexpected. Hop n smacks are scary.

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That would be called a "climbing pass" at many DZ's. The idea is that it's a waste of time to level the plane off and throttle back just to let one jumper out early. So they keep on climbing at a higher speed, and it's up to the jumper to handle it. Normally it's not a problem. But with some aircraft the tail is lower than others, and if you do an upward jump on exit and grab a lot of air, while the tail is low because of the climbing attitude, you may strike it. Beware, and make a diving exit next time...

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I've had a few of those "climbing passes" in a Twin Otter before, not a big deal, ... But seems kinda risky in a Caravan with the tail as low as it is... I know that I was told never to "jump" out of the door on the caravan even at normal jump run speeds because a strike is possible. I for one would tend to think that slowing down may be worth the trouble in a plane like that, not only for the safety of the jumper but the safety of the aircraft in question wouldnt it?

FGF #???
I miss the sky...
There are 10 types of people in the world... those who understand binary and those who don't.

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One of the first things that people are warned about when briefed on the caravan is about not getting floaty or high on exit. Tail is pointed out to people at this time to emphasize the point. Did you ever receive a briefing on caravans? I have several "climbing pass" type exits from them and have never had a problem.

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You probably shoul be able to tell if the aircraft is in a climbing attitude (nose high, tail low, floor you're on is sloping aft) from a level attitude.


Pilot types, I know I just simplified things but ya'll get the point.
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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

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You probably shoul be able to tell if the aircraft is in a climbing attitude (nose high, tail low, floor you're on is sloping aft) from a level attitude.


Pilot types, I know I just simplified things but ya'll get the point.



Replyed to nobody in particular:

Which is a point I was trying to make in my past post.. On a plane such as a caravan, is it worth the risk to H&P with the plane (which already has a low tail) in a configuration that the tail is lower due to it's climb and moving faster as well? Just seems kinda dumb. Am I just missing something? Nothing against the climbing H&P, done a few in the Otter, but never seen it done with a Caravan.

FGF #???
I miss the sky...
There are 10 types of people in the world... those who understand binary and those who don't.

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Which is a point I was trying to make in my past post.. On a plane such as a caravan, is it worth the risk to H&P with the plane (which already has a low tail) in a configuration that the tail is lower due to it's climb and moving faster as well? Just seems kinda dumb. Am I just missing something? Nothing against the climbing H&P, done a few in the Otter, but never seen it done with a Caravan.



I'd like to point out that I had the EXACT same thing happen on a Grand Caravan. I think as long as your head is below the door on exit, and you don't jump up, you are ok. But a floater exit not only puts your head high relative to the tail, but helps you catch wind faster (ie, slow down relative to the plane faster) which makes the problem worse. My DZ ended up making a policy after my impact that everyone on a hop-n-pop has to leave from their knees. It's a mildly irritating rule, but as far as I know, I am the only person who has hit the plane, so it seems to be a good idea. Of course, the pilot was pretty freaked out about it, so I think he might have started slowing down a little for hop-n-pops after that.

I'd like to say that asking for a briefing before you jump a new plane would be the solution, but I recall asking someone about that plane and being told that since I was used to jumping an Otter it is exactly the same.....

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Back in 1942 the Royal Air Force learned that you are not supposed to exit a DC-3 while it is climbing.
The same rule applies to King Airs, Caravans, Cherokee Sixes and most other airplanes with low tails.
Unfortunately, every new generation of jumpers has to re-learn the old lesson the hard way.

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My DZ ended up making a policy after my impact that everyone on a hop-n-pop has to leave from their knees. It's a mildly irritating rule, but as far as I know, I am the only person who has hit the plane, so it seems to be a good idea.



Why on the knees? I`m happy to leave Caravan even from sitting in the door, just like from C207 :).

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My DZ ended up making a policy after my impact that everyone on a hop-n-pop has to leave from their knees. It's a mildly irritating rule, but as far as I know, I am the only person who has hit the plane, so it seems to be a good idea.



Why on the knees? I`m happy to leave Caravan even from sitting in the door, just like from C207 :).



Same thing really. It's just an arbitrary rule to avoid certain types of exits. They are mostly trying to avoid floater exits, but I'm sure if someone jumped UP out of the plane, it would be similar, so they just made a rule where your only option is to fall out of the plane. I doubt anyone would complain about a seated exit.

The part that really got me is that I was *TRAINED* to do a floater exit in a hop-n-pop emergency situation. I didn't realize at the time that it is a great way to exit an Otter, but not so great for a Caravan.

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On a plane such as a caravan, is it worth the risk to H&P with the plane (which already has a low tail) in a configuration that the tail is lower due to it's climb and moving faster as well? Just seems kinda dumb.



It can be done perfectly safe, you just have to avoid one type of exit where you stand straight up perpendicular to the ground. You can launch out the door crouched, into a horizontal position belly to earth, head into the relative prop-blast wind - and that won't be a problem. Hop 'n pops are a lot of fun. Many types of aircraft have peculiarities to watch out for, but that doesn't mean they aren't safe to jump out of.

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THANK YOU for posting this. I had no idea that striking the plane on exit was possible...of course I was trained static line on 182's (and son-of-a-gun if I don't now all of a sudden remember striking my wrist on the step on exit! -Inside they thought I may have potentially hurt it pretty bad, but it was the >SMACK< of hitting the alti...believe it or not, the alti didn't break!)

-Anyhoo, I have never experienced a 'climbing pass'. I didn't even know DZ's did this (none of the 5 I have jumped at did...at least not with me on the load.)

Very good info to know, and thank you to others that have posted in this thread with further details and cautions. I'm still out of commission for jumping, but when I get back up there, it may very well be out of a caravan.
~Jaye
Do not believe that possibly you can escape the reward of your action.

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On a plane such as a caravan, is it worth the risk to H&P with the plane (which already has a low tail) in a configuration that the tail is lower due to it's climb and moving faster as well? Just seems kinda dumb.



It can be done perfectly safe, you just have to avoid one type of exit where you stand straight up perpendicular to the ground. You can launch out the door crouched, into a horizontal position belly to earth, head into the relative prop-blast wind - and that won't be a problem. Hop 'n pops are a lot of fun. Many types of aircraft have peculiarities to watch out for, but that doesn't mean they aren't safe to jump out of.



I agree, it can be safe... It just seems that in that situation, it would be worth it for the plane to slow down in case someone does make a standing exit from that plane. It seems that not everyone gets this brief of a low tail on the caravan, which is only an issue on very few exits during a normal jump run. It's not just the jumper that doesnt know the tail is lower on this aircraft that is in danger here, a strike to the tail could cause damage to the aircraft and potentially become a problem for everyone onboard. I am simply questioning whether it is really worth not slowing down on this type of aircraft, I can not imagion that it is that much of an impact with time or fuel to make it necessary to continue climbing for a H&P. Thankfully I have never seen my DZ do a climbing jump run with the Caravan. I have done a few climbing H&Ps in the Otter, but that aircraft is better built for such an exit.

And I know H&Ps are lots of fun, I keep atleast 10% of my jumps H&Ps ;)

FGF #???
I miss the sky...
There are 10 types of people in the world... those who understand binary and those who don't.

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Maybe a Caravan pilot can reply but the dzs that I have worked at that flew Caravans did not do climbing hop and pops. The pilot is responsible for every person in that plane and everything that falls out of it- it is in their best interest to not have anything take off the tail of the plane. I thought it was standard procedure to put in a notch of flaps and level off to change the pitch of the plane and bring the tail up before the hop and pop exited.

It cost the DZ a minute at most and could save 15 peoples lives.
"If you're not on the centerline -you're out of control"

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Which is a point I was trying to make in my past post.. On a plane such as a caravan, is it worth the risk to H&P with the plane (which already has a low tail) in a configuration that the tail is lower due to it's climb and moving faster as well?



I don't see it as a risk really, but I recomend agains floating H&P in such a situation.
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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

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We had a guy die doing that:(

Caravan was still nose up and he was breifed for a dive exit, but exited poised. Head struck the tail plane (with helmet on) and he died as a result of injuries.

We level off now for EVERY exit, no one exits the plane whilst climbing now.

The price of fuel is just not that high[:/]
You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky)
My Life ROCKS!
How's yours doing?

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A visiting jumper from os - very sad. As you say it's only money (and not much at that), what is a life worth...



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We had a guy die doing that:(

Caravan was still nose up and he was breifed for a dive exit, but exited poised. Head struck the tail plane (with helmet on) and he died as a result of injuries.

We level off now for EVERY exit, no one exits the plane whilst climbing now.

The price of fuel is just not that high[:/]


Blue Dreams Benno

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A girl just did a poised exit out of a King Air and broke her right arm on the horizontal stabilizer this past Saturday. See Incidents forum. She eventually no-flared the landing and busted herself up pretty bad. Only has 20 jumps or so.
"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban

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