Newbie landing questions!

[tomahawkpilot 0]

Hi, everyone. I've been interested in skydiving for awhile, but never took it seriously. I learned to fly, got an instrument rating, love being up there, but I always wondered what it would be like to jump out. So something clicked in my brain last week where I realized there was nothing stopping me from jumping except myself!

Now, I'm going to do it, no matter what, but I'm really analytical and I have a bunch of questions. I wonder if anyone here would like to take a shot at answering some of these. You would be my friend forever! :)

My questions mainly involve landing. I figure the instructors will help me up to the time I pull, and chances are pretty good everything will go right with that. If not, I follow the procedures I was taught.

Landing, I can sense, might be different. I'm not sure there's a decision tree you can memorize that can help you do it right the first time. Sometimes stuff happens that you just have to respond to one way or another. A burble, low-level wind shear, etc. I've been through that whole thing in airplanes, learning to judge your descent and speed and do the flare right while coping with whatever randomness is in the air that day. (Believe it or not, landing practice was the part of training I loved the most -- I could have stayed in the pattern all day doing touch-and-gos.)

I keep reminding myself, if a person off the street with no aeronautical experience can walk in and sign up for an AFF, then whoever sells it to him is reasonably confident that if he follows the directions, he will make a safe first-time landing. I try to keep that in mind.

But still! The idea of landing a totally new and different kind of aircraft just minutes after my first time controlling it in real flight is pretty wild!

Do you think that my experience with airplanes could actually hurt me? Like, I might unintentionally make some decisions based on what I'm used to, but which would be totally wrong for flying a canopy?

Heck, I remember what it's like to make really poor judgements in an airplane. Like one time I was practicing power-off emergency landings, and I thought I set it all up right, then on final it was clear I would never have made the runway and would have ended up in the trees. Luckily, it was only a drill, and we went around. But landing in a parachute will be a first-time event, where I have no power to save me (engine power).

And then I'm looking at the parachute and thinking... how hard is it to keep it from stalling? Can you survive a stall? Is it possible to over-control it, like make a turn too sharp, and get out of control? How cautious or adventurous should you be with the controls? I'm concerned about being too careful with my maneuvers as much as being too aggressive.

So basically I want to know why you people think a newbie can come in off the street and land a parachute safely. Having never landed one before.

Or should I not think about any of this, just show up, and do whatever they say?

Thanks, Tod

[CloudyHead 0]

It's so easy a monkey could do it! When they tell you on the radio to turn right 90 degrees, pull down on the right toggle until you're 90 degrees! So easy! They'll even tell you when to flare when you land. So simple! You'll even have an over sized student canopy that is almost impossible to stall, and extremely forgivable... sharp input vs soft input won't really matter when you're turning. You'll be begging them to take you off radio after a few jumps!

[CloudyHead 0]

sorry i just watched a video posted on here of a monkey firing an AK-47. Maybe a canopy landing might be a little too much.. but it would be fun to watch

[beowulf 1]

Ok, first off you are over thinking it.

On your first jump they will go over most of if not all of your questions, especially how to handle a parachute in flight.

The biggest reason just about anyone can take an AFF course and survive is due to the size of the parachute being used. It will be much bigger then what most of the licensed skydivers are using and will basically fly like a big truck, SLOW. So if you do screw up you have a better chance surviving.


The majority of your questions really need to be addressed by the instructors you will be working with. I don't think this forum is a good place to learn for newbies. Too many self proclaimed experts with little to no experience.

[377 20]

It isnt hard at all. A big student canpoy is very forgiving. The main thing is dont flare too high, wait until you are really close to the ground. Your instructor will be radioing commands to you, just follow them and you'll have a very soft arrival on Terra Firma.

You can try the canopy flight simulator here,:

http://staticlineinteractive.com/index.php

It's called Canopy Glide. The graphics are primitie but the flight physics are quite realistic. It's actually harder to fly the sim than a real canopy so if you master the sim you'll be fine.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[Scrumpot 1]

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Do you think that my experience with airplanes could actually hurt me? Like, I might unintentionally make some decisions based on what I'm used to, but which would be totally wrong for flying a canopy?

Coincidentally enough, I had the pleasure of teaching a FJC Student just this past weekend, who is also a commercial-rated 10,000+ hour pilot, who has for the past 10 years been flying A300's for UPS. His biggest "challenge" (he reported to me) was thinking of how he was going to manage his landing "sight-picture". Between us, I think we concluded that his biggest challenge was going to be resisting wanting to flare too early/high. An A300 at a 6' nose-up pitch angle, coming in for touchdown ROUTINELY puts him at nearly 50 feet total off the ground at main-landing gear touch-down!

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And then I'm looking at the parachute and thinking... how hard is it to keep it from stalling? Can you survive a stall? Is it possible to over-control it, like make a turn too sharp, and get out of control? How cautious or adventurous should you be with the controls? I'm concerned about being too careful with my maneuvers as much as being too aggressive.

So basically I want to know why you people think a newbie can come in off the street and land a parachute safely. Having never landed one before.

As someone else has already said - you are already way too OVER-THINKING THIS, without already had at least the benefit of attaining the instructional training/knowledge. I am not going to try to give you that here, in an internet forum. Rather - what I am going to say is simple - - - If, after you have completed your ground-training FJC, you do not still feel fully confident that you can do it, with the instruction and information provided, and/or you have any doubts still then at that point - YOU DO NOT HAVE TO JUMP! ...I think however, once you have already at least gone through the class, and you've had the opportunity to more fully vet these questions you have out, in person, f/f with your instructor - I'll bet $$-to-donuts you will.

Give your actual instructors the opportunity to appropriately instruct you FIRST. Then, decide for yourself from there. If in any doubt - it is not unreasonable for you to make your 1st jump a tandem either. There are several methods available by which one can make their 1st skydive/parachute descent from an airplane. One size (and/or instructional method) does not necessarily, fit ALL.

Good luck! ...I look forward to seeing your follow-up post once you have done it - no matter which method you for yourself, actually decide.

Blue Skies,
-Grant

coitus non circum - Moab Stone

[JerseyShawn 0]

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Do you think that my experience with airplanes could actually hurt me?

I came from a pilot background too. I think it helped first off with being up in the air (fear, nervousness). I totally understood my landing pattern when it was explained (skydiving), where I needed to be at what elevation, like landing a plane pattern. The timing of the flare came easily for me, you'll learn to perfect it with practice.

For me knowing how a pattern works and the flare works to land softly beforehand (from pilot experience) helped me a bit (I think). Stood up every landing since my first jump and landed generally where I needed to be.

As with piloting looking around for other aircraft, look around while youre under your canopy in every direction possible and always know where other canopies are.

Go jump, its the most beautiful thing.

[wolfriverjoe 1,340]

Jersyshawn covered most of it, and his experience matches mine.

Answers to your questions in reverse order:

Yes, you are overthinking it.

Newbies come out and (mostly) sucessfully land parachutes all the time. We know they can do it because we've seen it over and over again.

Student canopies are usually rigged so that you can't pull the toggles down far enough to stall them. There are ways to get around this, but you have to really try.

Student canopies are big, slow and fairly forgiving of mistakes. And the student landing areas are huge clear areas. A little (or even more than a little) short, long or whatever shouldn't be too much of a problem. Depending on where you go, you may also have a radio with an instructor telling you where to go in order to make it to the landing area.

Prior aeronautical experience will mostly be a help. You already understand traffic patterns and approach/glide paths and the concepts behind the flare. You also understand how to judge your height above the ground during final. That is one of the things a lot of students have trouble with.
I say mostly because a first timer with no aeronautical experience will simply listen to the radio and pull the left toggle when told to go left the right toggle when told to go right and both of them when told to flare (usually anyway, some of them just don't listen). You will actually understand what's going on and may think you know what you are doing. Listen to your instructors and you should be fine.

It is a "totally new and different kind of aircraft", but it still follows the same aerodynamic rules as any other wing. The controls are a lot different, but very intuitive. You will have some time to get the feel for it on your way down. It's easier than you think.

Airplanes land a lot faster than student canopies. The little bumps and burbles and stuff that you have to throw in the little corrections for during the flare really aren't there. The randomness is still in the air, but you aren't going through anywhere near as much air when you land a canopy.

I had a good amount of piloting experience when I first jumped and the transition was pretty easy. Overall it was a big help.

Remember to listen to your instructors, make sure you understand what they tell you and most important - the only stupid question is the one you don't ask.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[tomahawkpilot 0]

Wow, thanks for the great responses everybody. It all probably seems obvious to you guys, but I really needed to hear these things.

Skydiving is such a huge thing to do for a newbie... but I will work hard to suppress my natural inclination to overthink EVERYTHING! Honestly, I was wide awake in bed last night thinking about this stuff.

What I will do is stop reading about skydiving, stop watching videos, and just go out to the DZ, do what they say, relax, and have a nice time. And trust that all will be revealed in due course!

Really, thanks so much.

Tod

[Joellercoaster 6]

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sorry i just watched a video posted on here of a monkey firing an AK-47. Maybe a canopy landing might be a little too much..

OK, apart from the fact that it's not real, that's not a monkey. Chimpanzees are apes

--
"I'll tell you how all skydivers are judged, . They are judged by the laws of physics." - kkeenan

"You jump out, pull the string and either live or die. What's there to be good at?

[FL_new_jumper 0]

OK, I don't want to play devil's advocate here but....

Thinking is NOT a bad thing. I am a student with a whopping 2 tandem jumps and 2 AFF jumps. So from a beginners point of view:

My level 1 I landed perfectly, no thanks to any radio input! DO NOT rely on radios.. at my DZ you can't hear a darn thing! However, level 2 I was thinking about getting in the pickup vehicle before my feet even touched the ground. Result: flared too early, didn't PLF (tuck and roll) and ended up with a fractured ankle in 2 places. (see the lovely pic attached) I am in my 7th week of recovery but I can't wait to get back up there in a couple weeks.

The moral - ALWAYS keep your head in the game and listen to your instructors!

[Gators1240 9]

Yes you are definitely overthinking things.

Before I say anything else I would say to listen to your instructors and ask them all of these questions. They have the knowledge and experience and have seen tons of students with similar questions/experiences and should have a good grasp on how to handle these questions in a way that will make more sense to you than anyone on here probably will.

As far as your first couple landings go I would suggest that you study and remember how to PLF. Sure there are many people (myself included) who were able to stand up their landings softly from the get go but that may instill a bit of false confidence in your landing ability where you may end up with broken ankles etc... due to thinking you dont need to PLF because you landed 2 or 3 beforehand without needing to.

Pay attention while going through your FJC and really listen to the advice your instructors will give you, it may very well save your life. You should have a radio so that they can help you while landing but I would not rely on it at all. With every single jump you make the decisions are yours to make and you need to be able to make those with or without the input from your instructor. I saw a group of military guys from oman (about 150 of them) that came down to Skydive DeLand to do their AFF last year and on the first jump one of their radios accidentally got turned off in freefall. So instead of doing what he was taught and set up in his holding area and begin his landing pattern as hen should have, he just flew straight and waited for the radio to tell him what to do. Needless to say he landed at the edge of the airport, did not flare or PLF, and im pretty sure he broke an ankle or a leg(one of them did, not sure if it was this guy or another one out of the group). The moral of the story is, like I said before, listen and learn what you need to do and how to do it, and if the instructors can help while landing via the radio then great but it really is all up to you.

As with everything skydiving related have fun, and be safe. Blue skies.