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ridestrong

Coach Jumps Now Required Until 'A' License

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That site hasn't been updated in like 2 years. Also jumps are $27 now.



I'd make them sell me tickets for $25 (advertised price):P
"I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly
DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890
I'm an asshole, and I approve this message

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Maybe it's just me, but I don't see canopy control as the real issue...more canopy awareness and landing areas / patterns.
That ain't canopy control in my book.
:P




I should have said 'canopy training', as I'm sure it will address all of those issues.
*I am not afraid of dying... I am afraid of missing life.*
----Disclaimer: I don't know shit about skydiving.----

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This corse as related to money is only $400 more total to get your A license that is however with renting gear didn't do the math without renting gear. I jump there and have done the math because i was wondering this as well. so for $400 more you get coaching. the coach jump is going down pay is going down. they have been trying to get more coaches on staff so the students will not be waiting around for prolonged periods of time. also they are getting more rigs for students to again prevent them from sitting around on the ground.

also i believe it is 2 full jumps number 8 & 9 and 1 hop & pop number 10
5 canopy course hop & pops
and the rest are coach jumps
3 or 4 way jumps as the last 2 jumps (2 coaches 1 student [don't have to pay for the second coach DOZ covers that] or 2 coaches 2 students)
the canopy corse is included in the total price.

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This corse as related to money is only $400 more total to get your A license that is however with renting gear didn't do the math without renting gear. I jump there and have done the math because i was wondering this as well. so for $400 more you get coaching. the coach jump is going down pay is going down. they have been trying to get more coaches on staff so the students will not be waiting around for prolonged periods of time. also they are getting more rigs for students to again prevent them from sitting around on the ground.

also i believe it is 2 full jumps number 8 & 9 and 1 hop & pop number 10
5 canopy course hop & pops
and the rest are coach jumps
3 or 4 way jumps as the last 2 jumps (2 coaches 1 student [don't have to pay for the second coach DOZ covers that] or 2 coaches 2 students)
the canopy corse is included in the total price.




Just to clarify.... I assume you mean an additional cost of $400 (for the coaching alone).... that would not have been otherwise necessary without the required coach course?

A solo jump without a coach is $52 (with rental), there is no way that $400 includes both the coaching fees and rental fees for ~15 jumps.

I will try to get more accurate info on the actual cost of the coach jumps.
*I am not afraid of dying... I am afraid of missing life.*
----Disclaimer: I don't know shit about skydiving.----

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according to the DZO it will cost total around $1500 for this new program which is about $400 more where it used to be which was around $1100
**these are rounded numbers to keep it simple and with gear rental
My math:
it used to be:
[(27+25)*16]+(115*2) = 1062
i do not know the math for the new program but just subtract

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I think it's a crock of crap myself.

I 'grew up' under the watchful eye of world class and even olympic skydivers. I've seen more and more requirements placed on everyone and yet more problems arise

As a D, I can't even pay that forward until I get my Coach rating now (which I'll do this summer)

I saw no problems with SIM 2-1-E-6a/b. Most D-license holders probably have more experience than the average "coach" anyway (ref..6b) the only difference is not having been indoctrinated into the USPA teaching methods, which if the real reason they're doing this, is because students need to be taught things they aren't doing (or not doing right), sounds like the system is failing itself.

I think frank, et.al, are just playing CYA (1st), show me the money (2nd) because they are tied together. but thats' my speculation, the communication out there sucks; leaving people to come up with their own reasons why things are being done.

all that said, most all the fun jumpers out there look after each other and try and push through all the BS from the DZO. If it wasn't for the people (fun jumpers) and the convenient location, most wouldn't be there.

The opening of Empire will be interesting (30 April) ;)

DS#727, DB Cooper #41, POPS #11065, SCR #13183, FA #2125, SCS #8306, HALO #309 SRA #5930

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Thoughts?



It is bullshit.

Coaches should always be an option, but I started in the sport I was a broke ass. I avoided AFF because I could do 3-4 SL jumps for the cost of a single AFF jump.

I can appreciate wanting to make better jumpers, but I have been at DZ's that have tried this and it just drove students away, only to *maybe* come back after they got a license.

The DZ has the right to do anything they want.... I would suggest that students go to another DZ.
"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

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Some years ago when I got my A at Xkeys there was a similar yet different situation where they required that you go through the monkey claw freefly program and the Skydive U program before you could be signed off for your A. I was in high school at the time and just flat out could not afford it (I think at the time it was an added $600-700 on top of what I just spend for the license), so I had to go to a different DZ to get signed off and checked out.

I agree with what a lot of people are saying. There is definitely nothing wrong with trying to get your students to perform well and in the process learn how to be a safe skydiver through extra requirements like doing coach jumps or going through a program like I laid out above, but most people coming off of AFF, especially young people in high school or college, will not be able to afford such a requirement. I'm afraid it would be another deterrent that will keep people from going for the license all together.

I like what others have said too about paying it forward. That's been my approach for a long time. But, from my experience these DZ's that have said requirements will not let a licensed coach staff member jump with these students for the cost of their slot, even if it's not taking them away from a work jump.
Apologies for the spelling (and grammar).... I got a B.S, not a B.A. :)

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I could be wrong, but I haven't seen a comment from anyone on staff at Mile-Hi, (DZO, Instructor, or Coach). I would assume that someone on their staff at least monitors these forums for current information and could at least provide accurate information. Anybody?

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As a D, I can't even pay that forward until I get my Coach rating ...



Why do you say that? Of course, you can do that with a D...unless you jump at MH, I guess.
My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

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As a D, I can't even pay that forward until I get my Coach rating ...



Why do you say that? Of course, you can do that with a D...unless you jump at MH, I guess.



Per USPA it's up to the discretion of the individual dropzone whether to allow D license holders to jump with pre-A license skydivers. I am guessing Mile-Hi is not the only DZ that limits that.
"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

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I could be wrong, but I haven't seen a comment from anyone on staff at Mile-Hi, (DZO, Instructor, or Coach). I would assume that someone on their staff at least monitors these forums for current information and could at least provide accurate information. Anybody?




I'm not sure of the EXACT cost but I think the numbers posted so far are relatively accurate. Also, the coaching outline I posted is as well accurate.

I don't think we will see any staff posting on here, and certainly not giving their opinion,,,,,, but maybe we'll see someone join in to add some details.
*I am not afraid of dying... I am afraid of missing life.*
----Disclaimer: I don't know shit about skydiving.----

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HUGE turn off to the sport - people can't even afford to do a tandem and now jumps 9 through 25 will cost upward of $100 each w/gear rental.

The experienced people are killing themselves not students.

Idiots.

Jeff




Well to be a bit more accurate I think the coach jumps will be approximately $80 each (includes all costs for 1 jump).

Also, not exactly sure what you mean by the comment, "The experienced people are killing themselves not students."
*I am not afraid of dying... I am afraid of missing life.*
----Disclaimer: I don't know shit about skydiving.----

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Two slots, coach fee, gear rental, and a pack job on student gear for $80????
:o:|




Seems low to me.... leaving the coaches slot AND fee at only $28. I'm working on getting the ACTUAL cost, will post the info as soon as I get it.
*I am not afraid of dying... I am afraid of missing life.*
----Disclaimer: I don't know shit about skydiving.----

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Ok... the cost of each coach jump is $95, confirmed.

ETA: I am 95% sure on that cost, I think this is still somewhat up in the air as the requirement is just now being implemented. I don't want to give out any false information so I will update if someone sends me any correcting information.
*I am not afraid of dying... I am afraid of missing life.*
----Disclaimer: I don't know shit about skydiving.----

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Just as a comparison here in Australia you can get your A licence with as little as 15 jumps. No card to sign off just landing accuracy jumps (10 unassisted within 25m of target), packing signed off and also a test of general knowledge to get signed off for A. However once you have your A licence you can only do solo’s or jump with someone with a coach rating and no learning freefly, belly flying only.

To be able to jump with friends (of equal licence or above) or to learn freeflying you must have your B Licence. To achieve this you must have 50 jumps and also must also pass the B Rel (RW Training Decent Table) which consist of 10 stages. Stages 1-9 are with 1 instructor working on basic 2 way formation flying and then stage 10 consists of 3 jumps working on 4 ways (1 instructor and 2 others B licence or higher). Through all BRel jumps we pay for our own slot and coach ticket. Our prices to jump here are quite a bit more than the States. For instance where I jump the slot is $42 and the coach ticket is $78 so I am looking at $120 per BRel jump (X12 = 1440 not including stage repeats) to get my B licence so I can either start to learn Freefly or just jump with friends. This is after paying for AFF and not including gear hire if you don’t have your own rig which is approx $30 - $35 per jump depending on where you jump and if you pack it.

While I agree with the system as this is preparing us in the best conditions for learning basic formation flying with someone who knows what they are doing before then being let out into the big bad world with other inexperienced jumpers I do still find the cost quite a kick in the ass to someone trying to get into the sport. However once past BRels and having a B licence it does get a lot better as you can now start to jump with friends or anyone with a B licence or higher and learn different disciplines, ie freeflying.

Just thought I would give you comparison.

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Ok... the cost of each coach jump is $95, confirmed.

ETA: I am 95% sure on that cost,



Somebody else mentioned a slot price of $27, so you're into it for $54 to get on the plane. What's gear rental there, did I read $25/jump, or was that about another DZ? Even if it is, there's $79, and add $16 for the coaches pocket, and you've got your $95.

Did I read somewhere esle that the DZ was hurting for coaches and student rigs last year? Want to know how to get more of both? Make coach jumps mandatory for every post-AFF pre-license skydive. Bingo bango, you're pulling in $400 more per student ([pays for new rigs) and creating a shit-ton of coach jumps (pulls in more coaches).

One more thing, to the fun jumpers who were complaining about slow starts and manifest getting backed up 11 loads, this ain't gonna help. All this is going to do is make student jumps take up more slots in the plane, and you all know how it works, students get priority over fun jumpers, so you all can look forward to fewer free slots on every load.

It's another case of a DZO shooting themselves in the foot. It wasn't that long ago that Mile-Hi was considered a pretty cool place. High up for long swoops, and a good reputation with fun jumpers. Now this shit comes along, and there going to start losing fun jumpers. Now the DZ is less 'fun' and less attractive to students to finish the program. What do they have to look forward to, becoming a coach and doing 8 coach jumps per day? That will be the closest thing to 'fun jumpers' you'll have, and that's no way to draw people into the sport.

At some level you have to cater to the fun jumpers. You need a variety of colorful people at the DZ to hook students in. Skydiving needs to look like a fun and interesting sport, with some depth to it, if you want people to follow through and become 'skydivers', and like it or not, DZOs need skydivers. If nothing else, where do you get your next crop of TIs from, who really pay the bills?

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Ok... the cost of each coach jump is $95, confirmed.

ETA: I am 95% sure on that cost,



Somebody else mentioned a slot price of $27, so you're into it for $54 to get on the plane. What's gear rental there, did I read $25/jump, or was that about another DZ? Even if it is, there's $79, and add $16 for the coaches pocket, and you've got your $95.

Did I read somewhere esle that the DZ was hurting for coaches and student rigs last year? Want to know how to get more of both? Make coach jumps mandatory for every post-AFF pre-license skydive. Bingo bango, you're pulling in $400 more per student ([pays for new rigs) and creating a shit-ton of coach jumps (pulls in more coaches).

One more thing, to the fun jumpers who were complaining about slow starts and manifest getting backed up 11 loads, this ain't gonna help. All this is going to do is make student jumps take up more slots in the plane, and you all know how it works, students get priority over fun jumpers, so you all can look forward to fewer free slots on every load.

It's another case of a DZO shooting themselves in the foot. It wasn't that long ago that Mile-Hi was considered a pretty cool place. High up for long swoops, and a good reputation with fun jumpers. Now this shit comes along, and there going to start losing fun jumpers. Now the DZ is less 'fun' and less attractive to students to finish the program. What do they have to look forward to, becoming a coach and doing 8 coach jumps per day? That will be the closest thing to 'fun jumpers' you'll have, and that's no way to draw people into the sport.

At some level you have to cater to the fun jumpers. You need a variety of colorful people at the DZ to hook students in. Skydiving needs to look like a fun and interesting sport, with some depth to it, if you want people to follow through and become 'skydivers', and like it or not, DZOs need skydivers. If nothing else, where do you get your next crop of TIs from, who really pay the bills?



You are correct on your numbers.


I don't think that the extra coaches and students will greatly back up the wait to get on a load, or at least I hope. We have an Otter that is basically dedicated to fun jumpers. Last summer we had 2 Otters, both flying all day, all summer long. There are not a lot of DZs that fly 2 Otters, and dedicate one to fun jumpers.

Some of these changes are turning people off, but ultimately Mile-Hi is still a fun place to jump IMO. I would still urge out-of-towners etc.. to come check it out. There will still be plenty of RWers and FFers there to make for a lot of great jumps. Most of us fun jumpers still know how to keep it FUN.
*I am not afraid of dying... I am afraid of missing life.*
----Disclaimer: I don't know shit about skydiving.----

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