Ever catch something during a pin check?

[Hooknswoop 19]

Have you ever caught something on someone's rig during a pic check that could not have been caught on the ground by the jumper?

Derek

[diablopilot 2]

No. Everything I've seen could have been prevented by the jumper doing a proper gear check.

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[airtwardo 6]

Yes...just a couple weeks ago, at a demo...

We always pin check prior to boarding, we were riding around in a DC-3 for an hour when one jumper asked for another pin check because he heard velcro tear when he got up from sitting in a weird position...and the rig seemed funny.

The 2 pin reserve had one of the pins out.

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[scrublink 0]

Several flating reserve handles. Seems to happen to short and chunky type people most often. Handle must get loose in harness or something during initial and continued plane packing (otherwise known as boarding and the ride to altitude).

[Hooknswoop 19]

Let add: "or by the jumper themselves".

What were the other five things people caught?

Derek

[billvon 2,391]

> Have you ever caught something on someone's rig during a pic check
>that could not have been caught on the ground by the jumper?

A few things.

One was at the ranch, where I noted a jumper's reserve pin nearly clear of the loop; she had slouched against an exposed edge on the rear seat of an otter. I wasn't giving her a gear check but I noticed it from a few feet away.

Another one was a nude jump where a jumper had not re-threaded her chest strap correctly after removing her shirt.

One guy had his PC half-extracted from his pouch and hadn't noticed it.

The rest were much more minor - open flaps and open riser covers that became dislodged moving around in the plane.

[highfly 0]

I caught a misrouted bridle similar to Kevins thread.

The person had been on a hot load and rushed to get his gear packed.
Only on the way to the plane did he ask for a gear check. Now this isnt that normal in NZ to get a gear check.
I looked for anything out of the ordinary and spotted the bridle routing was a little differetn.
Normally my eyes just see what I expect to see.

I told him I wasnt sure of how he had routed his bridle.
He had run his bridle along the bottom of the tray and the close the bottom flap up locking the bridle into his tray.

He took his rig off and had a quick lok himself.
I don think he was expexting a "newb" to spot this.

Luckily for him I did.
Managed to save him $50 for his reserve repack.


Check check check as you pack pack pack.

I always check this twice now when I close my rig up.

www.myspace.com/durtymac

[flyangel2 2]

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Another one was a nude jump where a jumper had not re-threaded her chest strap correctly after removing her shirt.

Tell the truth Bill, were you really looking at the chest strap to see that it was mis-routed?

May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view. May your mountains rise into and above the clouds. - Edward Abbey

[Hooknswoop 19]

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I caught a misrouted bridle

Which could have been caught on the ground.

Derek

[Travman 6]

Not a pin check, but once when we were waiting at the emplaning area I noticed someone had misrouted their chest strap. I told them and at first they looked at me as if I was speaking another language and then they looked down and nearly crapped themself.

[riddler 0]

That's a lot of qualifications, so I wouldn't expect as many "yes" as I see in the results so far.

"Could've been caught on the ground" - this precludes things like misrouted bridles (which I've seen), that are due to the jumper's own lack of training. I think part of the pin check is to make sure people aren't doing something stupid, either a one-time mistake, or something out of ignorance.

"Or by the jumper themselves" - pretty much excludes the main pin. I check my main pin myself by removing one glove and reaching around to check it with my finger - I learned that from you. I can feel the pin and the closing loop underneath the protective flap, and I usually check it about 9,000 feet. Like you, I don't trust people to touch my gear.

In my mind, that really only leaves the possibility of something happening to reserve pin. Either it gets dislodged on the plane, it gets bent on the plane, or somehow the closing loop gets frayed or cut on the plane. Getting dislodged is less likely with modern gear - the protective flaps have reduced the chances (although it can still happen). The reserve pin getting bent is probably the most likely - a good whack against a sharp edge inside the plane would do it. At Mile Hi, there is a bench on the King Air, and the people that sit on the floor at the end of the bench sometimes sit hard against the edge right where their reserve pin is. It makes me cringe. As far as the closing loop, I've never spotted a frayed or broken loop on the reserve - even on the ground.

I don't ask for a pin check - I refuse them when offered to me. I trust myself and my own gear check more than someone I don't know fiddling around back there. When I jump with a student (pre-license), the USPA IRM requires that coaches "Perform a complete pre-boarding equipment check on the student" (IRM 2002, CRC, 8.E.2). For me this includes doing a pin-check on the ground.

Trapped on the surface of a sphere. XKCD

[wmw999 2,119]

Only one, and it was pretty obvious (it was in the days when pin checks were always done on the ground). Someone had been leaning against the airplane, and their reserve flap was crumpled up as though it had been rubbed up and down on something (it had). The reserve pin was almost unseated as well.

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[goose491 0]

I caught a reserve pin with only millimeters to freeing itself from the loop. The tip of it had already been pulled past the edge of the grommet. It gave me quite a chill when I opened the flap. I pushed it back in. The student jumper who asked me for the check looked very very nervous about the jump he was doing and so I contemplated not telling him until we got down.

I told him about it anyway. He said he had checked them both on the ground already. If that's so, and it moved sometime during the climb, I suppose it's something that could not have been caught on the ground by the jumper.

My Karma ran over my Dogma!!!

[davelepka 4]

How about a pilot chute completely out of it's pouch? I'm pretty sure it wasn't that way when he got in the plane, but when he went to get up for a pin check, sure enough, his PC was sitting on the floor right behind him.

It was a newer jumper with rental gear, so the list of 'how could this happen' is pretty long. It was repacked, and he had a normal jump.

[StevePhelps 0]

No, to something that "could" have been caught by the jumper.

Yes, to something that "wasn't" caught by the jumper.

His harness release handle was tucked under the webbing. Dude! I only thought that happened when you were trying to screw with a guy going through a Coach or AFFI course!

[wmw999 2,119]

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His harness release handle was tucked under the webbing

Nope. I've had that happen to me with a new cutaway handle. I caught it, but no one else did.

It's been twisted now...

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[mikeat10500 9]

Inflight:
I have turned students FXC AAD's back on (hip mount sensors)and pulled cuttaway and reserve handles from under main lift webs on pre-exit pin checks.
I used to have to warn my pilot that having 3 feet of loose lag strap on his softy may make for a nasty opening!

-----------------------------------
Mike Wheadon B-3715,HEMP#1
Higher Expectations for Modern Parachutists.

[tbrown 26]

Lots of things. A p/c bridle wrapped around a belly band (this was a common problem in the old days on early hand deploy rigs). Once we thought a guy's reserve container looker really odd and a rigger friend went digging - and found a BIC pen through both the closing loops (shudder...).

Oh yeah, one time we did a gear check on a cameraman and discovered he'd forgottenhis rig and left it on the ground ! And I'm not making this up...

Your humble servant.....Professor Gravity !

[JohnGraham 0]

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I have turned students FXC AAD's back on (hip mount sensors)

Erm... this made me scared just a little - do you mean you turned the on/off knob to the on position when it was previously in the off position? Do you know for sure that it is safe to do this?

[Hooknswoop 19]

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Do you know for sure that it is safe to do this?

Yes, it is.

I clarified later to not include things the jumper themselves could not have caught on the ground or doing a gear check themselves in the plane. Things like a tucked under cutaway handle are very easy for the jumper to catch.

I'm looking for things only a pin check from someone else could catch.

Derek

[Frenchy68 0]

I performed a pin check for a friend of mine on the ground, and everything looked fine. I checked him again at 11,000ft, and the reserve pin tip was about 1/4" away from the loop. I recommended he did not jump. He did, and it resulted in a 2 out. We both know better now (we had 30 some jumps then), and both of us tend to be over anal about pin checks and how far the reserve pin is into the loop...

"For once you have tasted Absinthe you will walk the earth with your eyes turned towards the gutter, for there you have been and there you will long to return."

[NWFlyer 2]

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We both know better now (we had 30 some jumps then)

Sounds like you knew better then, too, Nick. It's kind of an interesting balancing act because when you're newer you may be more "anal" about checking gear and more careful, but because you don't have all that much experience you may second guess yourself or not be as forceful in how you tell someone "this isn't a good thing." The trick is to keep that "anal" attitude about safety and strengthen it with confidence in your own knowledge.

"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

[Frenchy68 0]

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because you don't have all that much experience you may second guess yourself or not be as forceful in how you tell someone "this isn't a good thing".

Definitely the case. Difference between "You shouldn't jump" and "you're not jumping"...

"For once you have tasted Absinthe you will walk the earth with your eyes turned towards the gutter, for there you have been and there you will long to return."

[skydiverek 54]

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I checked him again at 11,000ft, and the reserve pin tip was about 1/4" away from the loop. I recommended he did not jump. He did, and it resulted in a 2 out. We both know better now (we had 30 some jumps then), and both of us tend to be over anal about pin checks and how far the reserve pin is into the loop...

Why didn't you just push the pin back in?

[Frenchy68 0]

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Why didn't you just push the pin back in?

I didn't want to mess with a reserve/reserve pin in the plane.

"For once you have tasted Absinthe you will walk the earth with your eyes turned towards the gutter, for there you have been and there you will long to return."