0
Hooknswoop

Ever catch something during a pin check That could not have been caught by the jumper?

Recommended Posts

Quote

Hey Hook, just to clarify before I vote in your new thread.. would you count the partially-extracted reserve pin caught in the plane if the jumper advised he had already checked them on the ground?



Yes, since the pin wasn't partially extracted when he checked it on the ground and he couldn't have caught it with the rig on his back. A pin checkis the only way it would have been found.

Derek

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote


Before or after they put on the rig?



Only things that the jumper could not have found with a gear check of their own gear on the ground or by checking their gear in the airplane. So, basically the problem must have happened after they put their rig on and would have been unable to then find the problem themselves while still wearing the gear.

The reserve pin being OK on the ground, then being found not seated during a pin check is a perfect example.

A tucked under cutaway handle could be found by the jumper so would not count.

Basically I'm looking for things that only a pin check would have found, i.e. couldn't have been foound any other way.

Derek

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

Hey Hook, just to clarify before I vote in your new thread.. would you count the partially-extracted reserve pin caught in the plane if the jumper advised he had already checked them on the ground?

Nick



These count and I've found a couple.
I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
>I'm looking for just things the jumper wearing the gear could not
>have caught/found themselves.

If a jumper managed to open his main flap and partly dislodge the pin while sitting down, but could have caught the problem if he felt around to see that the main flap was now open, does that count as "could have been caught by the jumper?"

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

I'm looking for just things the jumper wearing the gear could not have caught/found themselves.



A problem that could NOT have been caught by the jumper? I don’t think even a reserve pin being dislodged fits into this category because the jumper would have felt whatever dislodged it. In a perfect world perhaps there are no gear problems that wouldn’t be missed by the jumper utilizing the gear. In routine conditions, I am a triple checker on my own gear at a minimum and usually a lot more than that if you add up ground checks and all the habitual checking I do on the way to altitude; in fact I check my gear almost obsessively being ultra careful to not bump my gear, or lounge on my rig and use it as a “lazy boy” as some do. In the event that I feel that I have bumped myself potentially causing a problem there is usually an experienced skydiver that I trust very near me since the staff (instructors) usually sit in close proximity to one another on the ride to altitude. In 9 years of jumping I cannot recall a single event where a serious problem was found with my gear “knock on wood”, possibly my obsessive attitude concerning my gear is a testament to that fact. That being said, everyone makes mistakes and I only hope that if I ever miss something when I am in a rush or create a problem unknowingly that a visual pin check from a fellow skydiver will reveal the problem before I exit. I teach all of my solo freefall students how to pin check and I actually have them check me on the airplane, under supervision until they are ready to do it unsupervised. Afterward, I self-check my main pin as well as the rest of my gear before exit (I cannot reach the reserve pin). It could be argued that not all skydivers can be trusted to receive a pin check from either because they were never taught, didn’t want to learn or they are potentially psychotic but I think most trained USPA license holders are qualified and can be trusted to receive a pin check from. There have been instances where I asked someone who was not in the best position to do so for a pin check or settled for a self check (something I rarely do anymore) because the person sitting right next to me fit into the aforementioned category.

I have personally found a chest strap misrouted, pins not fully seated, a hidden cutaway cable or two, riser and pin covers not closed, a pilot chute sticking out around 4 inches, leg straps not stowed and believe it or not I once (recently) witnessed someone practicing EP’s on the airplane in the WRONG order by deploying the reserve then cutting away! (Maybe low timers and reserve pillows do not match). Needless to say, that person and I did some remedial training that day. But ALL of these problems COULD have been found and or corrected by the person jumping, couldn’t they?
Mykel AFF-I10
Skydiving Priorities: 1) Open Canopy. 2) Land Safely. 3) Don’t hurt anyone. 4) Repeat…

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Hook Said:

Quote

Only things that the jumper could not have found with a gear check of their own gear on the ground or by checking their gear in the airplane. So, basically the problem must have happened after they put their rig on and would have been unable to then find the problem themselves while still wearing the gear.




AFFI said:

Quote

I have personally found a chest strap misrouted, pins not fully seated, a hidden cutaway cable or two, riser and pin covers not closed, a pilot chute sticking out around 4 inches, leg straps not stowed and believe it or not I once (recently) witnessed someone practicing EP’s on the airplane in the WRONG order by deploying the reserve then cutting away! (Maybe low timers and reserve pillows do not match). Needless to say, that person and I did some remedial training that day. But ALL of these problems COULD have been found and or corrected by the person jumping, couldn’t they?



Yup, I think now people are getting it;)
May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view. May your mountains rise into and above the clouds. - Edward Abbey

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Yep. When sitting in the back of the otter, the seatbelts are bolted to the bulkhead. Those bolts stick out and snag stuff. It is especially dangerous because the jumper is right next to the door.

People go to stand up and get a slight tug...

I try to ask people if they would like a gear check if they were leaning back there.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote


If a jumper managed to open his main flap and partly dislodge the pin while sitting down, but could have caught the problem if he felt around to see that the main flap was now open, does that count as "could have been caught by the jumper?"



Yep, because it could have been caught by the jumper reaching back and checking.

Derek

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I actually answered yes but it's a matter of a judgement call. I do my own pin and bridle check and know exactly what I need to feel. I had a jump in which my bridle had slipped from under the cover and I was not certain that the jumper who fixed it got it completely conceiled, so I changed the dive flow so that I would be on my belly the whole time. I'm not so sure that someone else would have made that decision or observation, either correct or incorrect.
"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

Yup, I think now people are getting it



But it looks like some people are still denying it :P

Hmm - I still think that a dislodged reserve pin may not be caught by the jumper. It's possible to do slowly without realizing. Bending one is now out, because you would definitely feel the whack that would cause it to bend.
Trapped on the surface of a sphere. XKCD

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I would say only half the people I know can/do check their own reserve pin on jumprun. It would depend on the jumper as to whether or not a dislodged reserve pin could be caught.

I jumped a few different Vectors and a few different Mirages, and I could reach the reserve pin on all of the Vectors, but none of the Mirages.

--------------------------------------------------
In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock. ~ Thomas Jefferson

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

I would say only half the people I know can/do check their own reserve pin on jumprun.



Wow. Without getting too kinky - how do you do this? I don't think I've ever seen it. I can reach my main pin with the same move as scratching my lower back. But even if I were limber enough to reach the reserve pin, I doubt I could wedge my finger up underneath the reserve flap - or maybe you go from the top? But if that's the case, you would have to pull the reserve protective flap off, then reseat it after your check.
Trapped on the surface of a sphere. XKCD

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

Wow. Without getting too kinky - how do you do this? I don't think I've ever seen it.



With my Javelin XRS or my Micron V304 I could check the reserve pin. Reach back and put a finger under the flap to feel the pin. I was never too worries about the reserve pin since I didn't act like a gorilla in a Samsonite commercial with my rig.

Derek

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
>Without getting too kinky - how do you do this?

I can do it pretty easily on my Reflex. Reach back between my back and rig and slide the pin protector to one side. I don't generally do it, since it's pretty unlikely that anyone/anything has been able to get to that pin since I put the rig on.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Remember that Bill's Reflex has the reserve closing pin against his back, not pointing up like most rigs. For Bill, checking his reserve pin is only slightly more complex than scratching his back between his shoudler blades.

_Am
__

You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I have a Vector 3 w/ a Sabre 135 and a Raven 150R and I have no problems reaching back opening the reserve flap checking that the loop is far up on the pin and then closing the flap. It didn't come at first try though I had to practice.

I could do it with the 150 in there too.

Edited to add: Go ahead get kinky with it. ;)

--------------------------------------------------
In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock. ~ Thomas Jefferson

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I have! A few people didn't have the common sense or were too lazy to replace their closing loop when they should have. When they ask for a gear check and I see a loop that is super hairy....I tell them that it's time to replace that thing and I wonder if they even know how to.I showed one girl how easy it was to do when we got back on the ground.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

0