virgin-burner 1 #1 September 23, 2011 in the light of recent events and threads, i may ask this the general dorkzone-popolus: if you were aware of a jumper that is about to considerably going in over his head and it will be VERY likely he'll hurt or kill himself.. would you take measures to prevent him from doing so!? say, the jumper in question has a very bad attitude, poor skills and just doesnt listen. not to you, your way more experienced friends, declines other offers of doing "cool stuff" and is just dead-set (pun intended) on doing stuff that he may got away with before, but through adding new factors, if he's doing the same mistakes, will end up as a cripple or in a coffin.“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.” -Hunter S. Thompson "No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try." -Yoda Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jrmrangers 0 #2 September 23, 2011 In a heartbeat ! Not because I want to help an asshole that knows everything but because I don't want him to kill so Eons else while doing his thing!!Wait , I pull what first? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
feuergnom 22 #3 September 23, 2011 talking, mentoring, giving shit and flameing as well as calling the dz next door don't work apparently - so how should these measures look like????? there's dozens of threads around here where that problem has been discussed ad nauseatum - I haven't found a F****** clue whatsoever, and there's a ton of people with the same experience. maybe we are beating a dead horse?The universal aptitude for ineptitude makes any human accomplishment an incredible miracle dudeist skydiver # 666 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
piisfish 135 #4 September 23, 2011 Fuck Yeah, not because I care for the other person, I just don't want to hear from my relatives and whuffos and 20minuten.ch how much skydiving is dangerous. scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
virgin-burner 1 #5 September 23, 2011 apparently, something DID work!“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.” -Hunter S. Thompson "No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try." -Yoda Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
virgin-burner 1 #6 September 23, 2011 Quote Fuck Yeah, not because I care for the other person, I just don't want to hear from my relatives and whuffos and 20minuten.ch how much skydiving is dangerous. you're right nick, it's only since recently that i thought about that as well, it reflects bad on us and our sport too. the jumper in question is a selfish fucking prick, and my feelings of guilt are now being pushed aside by feelings of anger towards him. i'm all for self-regulating and fewest possible rules, adult and mature jumpers/decisions, but the longer i'm in this, the more my mind changes. and just for the record: i've done stuff too that i wouldnt repeat, or would advise against. i'm not quite a "conservative" jumper, but some stuff is stupid beyond belief! “Some may never live, but the crazy never die.” -Hunter S. Thompson "No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try." -Yoda Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
piisfish 135 #7 September 23, 2011 Standard warning for that kind of person : If you want to bounce, get yourself a f*cking pogo-stickscissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
virgin-burner 1 #8 September 23, 2011 "go fuck yourself and ruin someone elses sport!" “Some may never live, but the crazy never die.” -Hunter S. Thompson "No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try." -Yoda Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
feuergnom 22 #9 September 23, 2011 Quote If you want to bounce, get yourself a f*cking pogo-stick should this become my new sig-line???The universal aptitude for ineptitude makes any human accomplishment an incredible miracle dudeist skydiver # 666 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
piisfish 135 #10 September 23, 2011 Quote Quote If you want to bounce, get yourself a f*cking pogo-stick should this become my new sig-line??? it could, just quote me scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
piisfish 135 #11 September 23, 2011 VB, you know, that would also apply for people playing out of their leagues with any canopy, wingsuit, skysurf or videocamera.... You name it, there is always a way to play where you have no business. It sure pisses people off, but we all want to continue playing our games. I even know a guy who was jumping a Mach1 suit.... scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JerseyShawn 0 #12 September 23, 2011 I have already. I consider it "looking out" rather than "ratting out". Another low jump number friend (like myself) at another DZ was doing stupid shit, trying to freefly, not tracking 90 degrees to the jump run, downsizing after a jump or two on a canopy. Landing out, almost hitting powerlines. All solo jumps off off AFF. Bragging like an idiot to me. Tried talking to him first, wouldn't listen, went straight to his DZO. They gladly took care him. If I didn't say anything and he hurt himself or anyone else, Id be an asshole. I would do it again if and when I have to. Id expect the same for me if I was being reckless. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
virgin-burner 1 #13 September 23, 2011 Quote VB, you know, that would also apply for people playing out of their leagues with any canopy, wingsuit, skysurf or videocamera.... You name it, there is always a way to play where you have no business. It sure pisses people off, but we all want to continue playing our games. I even know a guy who was jumping a Mach1 suit.... i have edited one of my earlier posts before your suggestion here. i'm not taking myself out of the equation.. from what i know about the guy with the mach1, he DID buy it early on. and didnt jump it, but also got a classic to put a couple more jumps on it before moving on.. “Some may never live, but the crazy never die.” -Hunter S. Thompson "No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try." -Yoda Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
captain_stan 0 #14 September 23, 2011 QuoteI have already. I consider it "looking out" rather than "ratting out". Another low jump number friend (like myself) at another DZ was doing stupid shit, trying to freefly, not tracking 90 degrees to the jump run, downsizing after a jump or two on a canopy. Landing out, almost hitting powerlines. All solo jumps off off AFF. Bragging like an idiot to me. Tried talking to him first, wouldn't listen, went straight to his DZO. They gladly took care him. If I didn't say anything and he hurt himself or anyone else, Id be an asshole. I would do it again if and when I have to. Id expect the same for me if I was being reckless. Best answer so far. I agree--we shouldn't demean this process with the term "ratting." If an individual can't be persuaded to act responsibly, there is a chain of authority that can solve this problem. And it doesn't have to be heavy-handed. When my efforts as a staffer are unsuccessful, I invite a DZO or S&TA to get involved and use their "bigger hammer." This process can often be done diplomatically and may save someone's life. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jacketsdb23 45 #15 September 23, 2011 I would, and I have. And not because I didn't like the people. In fact, I like them a lot. But yes, folks had canopy's that were way over their experience level (Xfire 2 @ 150 jumps).Losers make excuses, Winners make it happen God is Good Beer is Great Swoopers are crazy. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
virgin-burner 1 #16 September 23, 2011 so, well over 4 out of 5 are with me on this one, i really would like to hear the 2 guys/girls opinion that put their tick on "hell no".. but that's probably not gonna happen! “Some may never live, but the crazy never die.” -Hunter S. Thompson "No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try." -Yoda Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
davelepka 4 #17 September 23, 2011 Quoteover 4 out of 5 are with me on this one I've been friends with skydiving loner than I've been friends with most skydivers. The ones that have been around for awhile didn't last that long doing dumb shit anyway, so when the choice is between doing what makes skydiving happy, or doing what makes some newbie I haven't known that long happy, I'm going with skydiving every time. Injuries, fatalites and lawsuits aren't good for skydiving, so I'll do what I can to keep them off of my DZ. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jrjny 0 #18 September 23, 2011 The irony is many safe people that would rat others out just haven't had 'their moment'. Don't be deceived by low odds scenarios. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jonstark 8 #19 September 23, 2011 I had a run in with an experienced jumper who swooped right through the main landing area to land in the pit. He cut me off at a very high speed then came raging at me wanting to fight. I'm not about to do that so acknowledged him with silence. Later that evening I tried to calmly take him aside to talk about what I had learned from the experience in hopes that he too had gotten a clue. Nope, he still wants to fight. Couple weeks later he's dead after landing out. The landing area was not too bad had he been prepared to land without a swoop but he blew it and died. He was liked well enough around the DZ. He was considered fun and full of life by many. I think he was arrogant and wreckless and I tried to tell him so. jon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Remster 24 #20 September 23, 2011 QuoteThe irony is many safe people that would rat others out just haven't had 'their moment'. Don't be deceived by low odds scenarios. I think you're way our of left field on this one. We've all had our moment. Hell, if you jump for long enough, you'll have several moments. Look up Ron's "Stupid things I have done" thread for example. This isnt about people thinking they're god's gift to skydiving. It's about paying it forward, sometimes with tough love after the friendly talks don't work.Remster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ticklish 0 #21 September 23, 2011 Why wouldn't you say anything? In the worst case scenario, the individual doesn't listen to you and gets hurt, but at least you wont be sitting around questioning "i wonder if I should have said something". Hopefully, no one else gets hurt as a result because everyone else is aware that this person is a fool and is looking out for them. If you try talking to this person and they blow you off and now decide they don't like you anymore... who cares, you don't want to jump with them anyway. I observed one girl at my home DZ who couldn't for the life of her fly a landing pattern. I mentioned this to the instructors who then had a talk with her. Didn't keep her from flying too close to some trees one day, catching turbulence, landing hard, and hurting her back. Whether or not someone listens based off of something I've reported up the "Chain of command" is out of my control, but at least I know I did my part... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jrjny 0 #22 September 23, 2011 That's one interpretation for sure. I think what I said was still valid though and worth considering in this context, that's really it. I bet that pilot that killed a dozen people at the air show never expected that to happen. No one tattled on him though. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jonstark 8 #23 September 23, 2011 QuoteI bet that pilot that killed a dozen people at the air show never expected that to happen. No one tattled on him though. Not germane to the topic. The best analysis at this time says that this pilot was incapacitated. It was an accident, not incompetence or willful disregard for safe practice. jon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Remster 24 #24 September 23, 2011 QuoteThat's one interpretation for sure. I think what I said was still valid though and worth considering in this context, that's really it. I bet that pilot that killed a dozen people at the air show never expected that to happen. No one tattled on him though. Tattled on him for what? Did he have a history of buzzing the crowd? Or of dive bombing them? Or of failure to inspect his plane and follow maintenance directives?Remster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hookitt 0 #25 September 23, 2011 QuoteI would, and I have. And not because I didn't like the people. In fact, I like them a lot. But yes, folks had canopy's that were way over their experience level (Xfire 2 @ 150 jumps). Qualify that with highly loaded Crossfire 2 ... and thanks for doing that. He still complains but he's much better off now than he was.My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
