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Airman1270

Tandem Swooping

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During a recent visit to a well-known southeast DZ I saw tandems doing low-altitude 90 degree hook turns. The landings I witnessed were soft & nearly always right on target.

If the tandem manufacturers & the community of experienced TI's don't have a problem with this then I won't make a fuss, but I can't help thinking this is not the wisest decision one can make. It seems to increase the risk of an accident without offering any added benefit to the student's experience.

In addition, I fear this might make an impression on the new jumper who thinks this is the way landings "should" be. Might this be creating an environment which can breed future landing accidents?

Cheers,
Jon S.

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I'm personally not a fan. Too much can go wrong too badly and end up hurting yourself. More importantly, you could end up hurting your student. I even put the hook turn with the brake-surge method. I really don't like either of them, except that I would argue that using a hook turn is more for the TI's ego than anything.

I'm a big fan of a gentle carving turn to final to generate a little extra speed for your tandem, on those days you need it. The tandem pair never get out from under the canopy and the TI can flare to land at any point.

When I want to go swoop, I jump my velo. When I want to introduce someone to skydiving safely, I take that person on a tandem.
--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

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Why not ask the S&TA at the DZ, the DZO or DZM, or the Regional Director?

If the TI's are truly doing something wrong,then those ultimately are the opinions that matter.

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Well, top, it seems that some people think that S&TA's are safety and training advisors. Apparently there is not a lot of real ones out here. Having a title and doing the job are two different things. Having a title and being allowed to do your job are two different things.
My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

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Why not ask the S&TA at the DZ, the DZO or DZM, or the Regional Director?

If the TI's are truly doing something wrong,then those ultimately are the opinions that matter.

top



Well, top, it seems that some people think that S&TA's are safety and training advisors. Apparently there is not a lot of real ones out here. Having a title and doing the job are two different things. Having a title and being allowed to do your job are two different things.



That was why I gave him several different people to approach.

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The landings I witnessed were soft & nearly always right on target.



Nuff said right there.

Correct me if I'm wrong OP but,
I'm pretty sure you speak of my crew.

90 degree to final is acceptable. A turn is only "low" if it does not allow enough altitude for the canopy to recover on it's own arc without input from toggles or rears.
I set the bar high for all tandem staff and the rules are VERY clear. Deviation from our standards gets you time off or worse, you go away.

As stated by others, you could have spoken to any of us in person about your concerns. We are normal people and skydivers just like you.

What ever happened to having beers and talking while looking one in the eye?

Blues,
Bob
..................................
Better you than me
..................................

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What ever happened to having beers and talking while looking one in the eye?

<--------------------------------------------------------

Considering your avatar that there is funny:D
He may be talking about Z-Hills also Bob.
You can't be drunk all day if you don't start early!

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The landings I witnessed were soft & nearly always right on target.



Nuff said right there.

Correct me if I'm wrong OP but,
I'm pretty sure you speak of my crew.

90 degree to final is acceptable. A turn is only "low" if it does not allow enough altitude for the canopy to recover on it's own arc without input from toggles or rears.
I set the bar high for all tandem staff and the rules are VERY clear. Deviation from our standards gets you time off or worse, you go away.

As stated by others, you could have spoken to any of us in person about your concerns. We are normal people and skydivers just like you.

What ever happened to having beers and talking while looking one in the eye?
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

Didn't think it was important enough to make a fuss. As a visitor & a non-TI I'm ready to accept advice from those more experienced. At the same time I'd never seen this before & thought it might warrant a brief comment.

If I'd actually been hanging with everyone after hours I might have brought it up. I'm sure no one would have been offended.

Re rules: At check in I was shown DZ procedures. These included an admonition that everyone land in the same direction. Yet several times I saw folks land both up- & downwind on the same load.

Again, there was no compromise of safety. The people doing this stayed clear of each other. No close calls. Yet, as a new visitor it was made clear to me that we were supposed to all land in the same direction. Just curious.

Cheers,
Jon

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I've seen some pretty nice slide-in's but I wouldn't have called those swoops at all.

It seems like TI's probably experience variable others don't, like wing loadings not being what they expected.

How does wing loading affect final?
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