Are logbooks still relevant?

[Deisel 35]

With all the ways there are to electronically track jumps, do we still need good old paper and pen logs? Outside of nostalgic purposes why do we still use them? I know the first response will be that a signature is required to verify a jump, but I ask why? When was the last time someone had a problem finding another jumper willing to sign a logbook – no matter what it says? Besides, there are now ways to electronically sign logs as well.

I can figure out how to fake a written log entry with relative ease, but I have no idea how to fake a Pro-track entry. And they tend to have much better recall than the mind’s eye.

I’m just saying. Please discuss!

The brave may not live forever, but the timid never live at all.

[DougH 270]

What does a protrack log entry tell you? Not a whole hell of a lot!

A protrac nepture or equivalent doesn't tell you:
What type of jump.
Who was on it.
What the objective was.
If you were successful.
Any notable element of the jump.
Or any cool stories.
No signatures of people on the jump that you might value as your skydiving idols.
No cool pictures or drawings.
No way to verify you were the one jumping.

I enjoy filling out my log book, and having other jumpers write stuff in it too!

"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall"
=P

[Zlew 0]

I still use my logbook, but almost out of habit. When I started jumping full time, I stopped filling out the wordy logbook entries. I don't jump full time anymore, but the way I fill out my logbook is the same as it was. On one page I log the date, DZ, basic info, and list all the jumps (just by number) and usually not much more. Sometimes a note like "vid for 4 way team" , but not much more than that.

So there is no objective, if it was successful, who was on the jump etc. in my log book. I don't think a log book or a protrac can really prove you were on a jump, or are current(both can be easily faked).

When I was newer in the sport, I wrote a book for each and every jump; but I haven't done that in a really long time.

If that is important to you, the by all means use the logbook over an audible/tracker.

I do use ParaLog, but not really for logging as much as looking at the freeffall/canopy data and charts. I think you can not only add all the info you listed above (jump type etc.) but you can even add photos and other notes. That could also be an alternative to a paper logbook that gives you more than just the actual tracker/audible.

[brucet7 0]

I don't know much, but yesterday I tore my canopy. I contacted the manufacturer about it. I could look back at my log book and note the hard openings, and other opening characteristic which might help. At least I had hard information, dates, jump numbers, turn degrees, direction of turns, what broke, etc.

POPS #10623; SOS #1672

[skybill 18]

Hi Deis,
Well, maybe not if all yer electronic stuff holds up. Besides the log book, got a couple of "video logs" too. The hard paper logs are still a good reference, just depends on how much you care. I like to detail a lot, names, dive diagrams, etc. Got a shoebox full of old logbooks. 'Interesting to just grab one and open it to some page and read the notes,,, from 30 years ago!!! Time sure flyz

SCR-2034, SCS-680

III%,
Deli-out

[Feeblemind 1]

When you visit DZ's around the world they may ask to see your log book, especially at boogies and such....

Fire Safety Tip: Don't fry bacon while naked

[captain_stan 0]

Last time I needed my logbook was when a staffer asked for it during check-in at a boogie. It really shocked me that anyone would ask, but I guess they wanted me to prove I was current--I'm OK w/ that. I didn't have the book with me & had to ask the staffer to call the DZO to come out of the office and vouch for me. I now carry my logbook whenever I travel, but I don't collect signatures because I have all the ratings I want.

[Krip 2]

Do a search on DZ.com about log books I think this is the second thread in a few weeks weeks on this subject.

One Jump Wonder

[JohnRich 4]

Relevant for what?

[TampaPete 35]

Here’s how you fake a Protrack logbook,

Leave it at the DZ and let anyone take it up for a jump. It could turn loads without even repacking. After awhile you’ll have hundreds of jumps on it you didn’t make.

Easy.

Oh, by the way, my Protrack matches my logbook.

[skymama 35]

Some of us don't electronically log our jumps.

She is Da Man, and you better not mess with Da Man,
because she will lay some keepdown on you faster than, well, really fast. ~Billvon

[wildcard451 0]

I couldnt produce a logbook if you asked me to.

[jtval 0]

I still log my jumps In a paper logbook, on an excel spread sheet...and two other forms for the military aspect.

My logbook is like a diary. When I get old and senile I'll be able to look back and ask "who the hell wrote all this crap?"

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[Krip 2]

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My logbook is like a diary. When I get old and senile I'll be able to look back and ask "who the hell wrote all this crap?"

Hi jtval

We're already there the old and senile part. We started jumping in 68, ,made 2 jumps and then nothing for 6 month's.

Now 43 later we can look at the log book see the down time scratch head and butt and the 60's were a very busy time for a lot of young folks . Damn must have been over there.

We're talking trash in the old farts forum, Someone asks When did you jump at Bragg and with which club, There were three. After we broke out the log books from our fire proof security vault we found the answer in 3 minutes.

First boogie at LP 20 yr's ago got that, etc Z-hills got that etc etc.

Pencil whipping your log books Thats not going to work at some DZ's, and your only fooling yourself

That can get you very bad. Or even worse like the dude that fell out of his wingsuit with 100 jumps.

R.



They can tell

One Jump Wonder

[darkwing 4]

In 50 years your logbooks will be one of your most prized possessions. Not so for your protract.

Log every jump. Each jump is a story. Tell it. Write down tail numbers from aircraft. Google them a few years later.

It is very unlikely you will regret writing too much. Very likely you will regret writing too little.

I have logged every jump since my first one, in 1973.

-- Jeff
My Skydiving History

[jtval 0]

Quote

Quote

My logbook is like a diary. When I get old and senile I'll be able to look back and ask "who the hell wrote all this crap?"

Hi jtval

We're already there the old and senile part. We started jumping in 68, ,made 2 jumps and then nothing for 6 month's....

... After we broke out the log books from our fire proof security vault we found the answer in 3 minutes.

First boogie at LP 20 yr's ago got that, etc Z-hills got that etc etc.

Pencil whipping your log books Thats not going to work at some DZ's, and your only fooling yourself

Yep, thats why I decided to make an excel spreadsheet. so I can just do a word search instead of looking through all those books...however I STILL keep and update the handwritten books ,too.

About pencil whipping. I never understood that. Why would one want to do that?

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[Krip 2]

About pencil whipping. I never understood that. Why would one want to do that?

[1888 0]

I started jumping 50 yrs ago this past August 12th. I loged that jump & still log them today. If I recall correctly, to get yur D license your log books had to be shipped to PCA for verification, & yur license (paper with photo) went back each year to be stamped & returned.

[mjosparky 3]

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With all the ways there are to electronically track jumps, do we still need good old paper and pen logs?

I guess you have never had a ProTrack or Neptune go belly up on you. I can name maybe a dozen friends that had it happen to them. In the blink of an eye there go 1500 jumps. But it’s your call. I wouldn’t trade anything for my log books. I can look up what day I jumped at Santa Nella or Corning 2 drop zones most have never heard of.

Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[crotalus01 0]

Wingsuits are the only one of those that have minimum jump number requirements and that is fairly recent. Downsizing and camera are recommendations or DZ specific in the USA...

As for me and my house, we will serve the LORD...

[jtval 0]

Quote

Wingsuits are the only one of those that have minimum jump number requirements and that is fairly recent. Downsizing and camera are recommendations or DZ specific in the USA...

But yet fewer people would ask a guy with 2000jumps if he's ready for that canopy as oposed to the same guy with 200.


Still think its stupid. Some people are in such a hurry.
I got into this sport with the intent of doing it for a lifetime...a LONG life time.

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[jimmytavino 16]

nice post.

i got into this sport with NO intention of doing it for a lifetime... a LONG life time..

it simply has turned out that way....

started with written log book(s).. seemed to work Ok.. so i have continued..
i like the idea of being accurate in MANY things.. and so always bristled at the folks. who completed one season with say,, 6 hundred jumps and started the next.. with NINE hundred jumps... and so on and so on...

You don't have to log the jump the instant you land.... Instead i try to update soon thereafter and certainly before the next visit to the DZ...
as other have mentioned,,, it's fun to pick up any one of the dozen books i have and read and re-read notes and descriptions of Jumps that happened decades ago... but which can be "brought back to my minds eye".. today !!! it REALLY does work that way...

i use a protrack... but only as an audible.. and never count on it to store my jumps and have Never connected it into a computer..!!!!

[skydude2000 3]

I have a friend who writes absolute novels in her logbook. I ALWAYS tease her about it, even though I know it's a good idea. I don't go that far, but I always log with the names of the people on the jump, what we planned, what actually happened, and anything cool or weird that happened on the jump. That way you can also see how much you've improved since the first day you started and be proud of how much you've accomplished.

I've never ever heard anyone look back and say 'Gee, I wish I didn't write so much in my logbook'.

Just my two cents.

PULL!! or DIE!!

[Deisel 35]

Still relevant in the sense that I don’t believe that a signed log necessarily proves anything. But they are required in order to get licenses and ratings. And as someone just explained, an electronic log can be faked as well – news to me. I’m not saying that the system should go away, just that I’m not sure that collecting signatures still makes sense as a requirement.

Could we possibly have a system where an electronic logbook becomes the equivalent of the pen and paper types? Able to be used as documentation of jumps for all the same purposes?

You guys have reminded me that someday it will be nice to be able to go back and look at interesting stuff in my logs. I should be more detailed in what I write. And for the record, I do still log all of my jumps on paper.

The brave may not live forever, but the timid never live at all.

[mjosparky 3]

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but I always log with the names of the people on the jump, what we planned, what actually happened, and anything cool or weird that happened on the jump.

The last couple of years I was jumping I made around 100 jumps with over 100 jumpers. It gets to unwieldy to gather names. What I would do is put down how the exit went, how it was flying and how many out.

Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals