How to fly as DZ pilot?

[shattenjager 0]

I have a friend with commercial, twin engine and instrumental rating, he'd like to fly for free at some DZ to log hours, does anyone has any suggestion, tips, etc on where and IF DZ's let do this? We are located in Southern California.
He asked me to check at some DZ's but it doesn't seem like they need a pilot, not even for free.
Thanks for any advice.

The mind is like a parachute: If you don't open it, it doesn't work.

[mjosparky 3]

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He asked me to check at some DZ's but it doesn't seem like they need a pilot, not even for free.

Tell him to go check, he is the one asking.

Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[spikes2020 0]

Our dz is always looking for pilots but they only pick some trusted ones to fly their planes. Trust is earned via showing up on time and knowing what to do in every emergency. Skydiving planes could have many more different problems than most normal commercial planes.

Maybe if he stuck around the DZ for a few weekends he could get in with them. Big thing is to show up on time and learn how they operate. If he is persistent enough i am sure they will see that and give him the opportunity.

Most of our pilots dont need the hours, so talking with the other pilots also might be a good idea. See how they got in with the DZs.

Good Luck =)

Cheers

Jon W

[skinnay 0]

Isn't there a better way to get some experience? Maybe when 20+ lives are not on the line?

[DiverMike 5]

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Tell him to go check, he is the one asking

+1

He doesn't seem to be that into it. If he is trying to get a position that requires trust and respect by sending you as a proxy, he is going about it wrong.

For the same reason I jump off a perfectly good diving board.

[wolfriverjoe 1,340]

I'm guessing that your friend is a newer pilot. If so, he won't be flying Otters or King Airs, or even PACs or Caravans. He needs to find a Cessna DZ.
He needs to go and hang out. As in spend an entire day. Watch the operations. Talk to the pilots (if they have time). Talk to the DZO. Offer to help fuel, run oil out if needed, run the pilot out a bottle of water if needed. He will need to show that he is willing to be part of the team, not "just the pilot".

Have him look over this site: http://www.diverdriver.com/. It has loads of good info for prospective jump pilots.

He'll need to be up on slow flight, and operating with weird configuations - A 182 with four jumpers outside flies a bit different than normal. He'll also need to be on his game with engine managment. Shock cooling can kill an engine really fast. It's not hard to prevent, but it has to be done right.

It can be a lot of fun. I prefer to jump than fly, but I'll happily fly a few loads as necessary, even if I don't get to jump.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[CSpenceFLY 1]

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Tell him to go check, he is the one asking

+1

He doesn't seem to be that into it. If he is trying to get a position that requires trust and respect by sending you as a proxy, he is going about it wrong.

This is about as good as walking in looking like shit and saying," Hey man, y'all aint lookin' fer a pilot are ya".

[wolfriverjoe 1,340]

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Tell him to go check, he is the one asking

+1

He doesn't seem to be that into it. If he is trying to get a position that requires trust and respect by sending you as a proxy, he is going about it wrong.

True, but maybe he doesn't realize that. If he's a new pilot and doesn't know anything about DZs or jumpers, then just walking onto a DZ and asking would be a bit intimidating.

We all know that a newer pilot could walk onto a DZ and say something like "I'm interested in flying jumpers. Even if you don't need a pilot, can I hang out and watch and learn?"
But he might not. You can't do that at FedEx or UPS or even a small charter outfit.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[jrh 0]

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I have a friend with commercial, twin engine and instrumental rating, he'd like to fly for free ...

He asked me to check at some DZ's but it doesn't seem like they need a pilot, not even for free.
Thanks for any advice.

Just a heads up to your friend--he should ditch the "I'll do it for free" talk. Not just for flying at a DZ, but for any aviation position.

I've been working as a professional pilot (outside of flying jumpers) for the past seven years, and there are few things that make us cringe more than a new guy wanting to show up and do a job for free.

Now, that doesn't mean he should demand high wages. That doesn't even mean he shouldn't work for free--I'd be lying if I said I've never flown for free.

But the big difference is that it's unprofessional to use the "I'll work for free" line as a selling point to why a DZ should use your friend. It's as though the price for his skills is more important than the skills themselves.

It's also telling to see how a pilot will approach their job when they offer to fly for free. It shows that they're probably more concerned about building time than being an excellent pilot. If I'm hiring someone, I don't want a pilot who is trying to get hired based on price--I want one who is trying to get hired based on skill. Offering to fly for free is a sign they don't respect themselves enough, or think they're good enough, to expect to be paid. You get what you pay for.

Another point to consider would be the reputation of any DZ unwilling to pay their pilots. Is that really the kind of place your friend wants to work for? If they're not willing to shell out a few bucks an hour for the pilot, where else are they cutting corners? Maintenance? Equipment?

A more professional approach would be for your friend to show up at a DZ and express an interest in flying for them. Talk to whoever is in charge of hiring pilots and find out what the job entails. Then, at the end, ask, "What does this position pay?"

He might end up working for next to nothing, but at least he'll show some self-respect as he goes to do it. Money should be the last thing on his mind, not the first. He should view himself as a talented, limited commodity, and if he decides to "settle" for low wages, that's his choice to make.

[shattenjager 0]

Thanks, I really appreciate your advice, as I said, it's not me but a friend who was interested in some way to log hours.
I have no idea about pilots ethics and "do's/don'ts", I will be happy to tell him what you just said.
I'm just the messenger, not the envelope, but people here sometime don't read the whole posts. :-)
Thanks

The mind is like a parachute: If you don't open it, it doesn't work.

[Andrewwhyte 1]

As was mentioned above, if the ink on his commercial license is still wet he will need to start on a Cessna. This generally means working at a small DZ. Not a lot of those in SC. If your friend is serious he should be looking to relocate for next summer. Since many DZs lay pilots off in the fall the spring tends to be when junior guys get hired. I would guess February is a good time to send out resumes.

[mjosparky 3]

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I've been working as a professional pilot (outside of flying jumpers) for the past seven years, and there are few things that make us cringe more than a new guy wanting to show up and do a job for free.

Something like jumpers who will do a demo for free.

Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[jrh 0]

Yeah, I don't know much about the politics of professional skydiving. I imagine it's similar to flying. It's more about the attitude than the action.

What I mean is, I really don't care if somebody decides to work for free. There have been times when I'll hop in the cockpit and fly a load or two for free because the paid pilot wants a break, and I don't want to bother filling out the paperwork for flying two loads.

There are also pilots at my home DZ who have full time jobs outside aviation and only come out to fly in order to stay current and have fun. The DZ is willing to pay them, but they don't bother to fill out a time sheet.

Cases like those don't matter. It's the whole, "I'll do anything to get ahead! I'll even work for free!" attitude that pisses me off.

[skydived19006 4]

I agree with most of what's been said above. I'll add that anyone with no skydiver driver experience should be trained. That may sound a bit obvious, but "old school" 182 jump pilot training amounted to "you ride on the floor once, then I'll ride along with you for a couple loads." I put the right seat and yoke in the airplane and require my new pilots to fly 10 to 20 loads under supervision before turning then lose. This wasn't exactly all my idea, it's a requirement of the insurance. Many DZs operate with their aircraft uninsured, but no reason not to train the pilots! There are way to many dead skydivers, and destroyed airplanes attributed to "stupid pilot tricks". Actual stall/spin recovery training is a good idea! I know of a few incidents where the pilot stalled the airplane and spun it to the ground one from 10,000'! As I recall, one in Oklahoma years ago the pilot while in a spin got on the radio and called down to ground asking for instruction on how to recover from a spin. His reply from ground was "full power and yoke full aft." Needless to say, he crashed that airplane.

Another advantage of training is that we get to assess the potential pilots skills and ability to function under a little pressure. I've had more than one who just wasn't getting it, and/or my training pilot was uncomfortable with. These guys did not end up flying for me.

The airport I operate from has had half a dozen jump planes destroyed over the years, no loss of life thankfully! I've had people tell me that the place had bad mojo, was built on an Indian burial ground, etc. My reply to that crap is, "Those crashes were due to poor maintenance, and poor piloting. I choose to maintain my airplane and train good pilots."

Experience is what you get when you thought you were going to get something else.

AC DZ

[airtwardo 6]

I was one of those 'old school' jump-pilots, "you've watched now you fly"...what's worse is I had a couple hundred hours and no written! ...if only I knew then what I know now!
The only thing that 'helped' me was I HAD watched, I had a couple hundred jumps so I knew what to do and had an idea of how...but that's just 'plane'-stupid and it was no real surprise they lost a couple aircraft in subsequent years with a mindset like that.

OTOH~
There was a DZ that use to pay for otter Sim time once or twice a year ...with the whole business relying on the aircraft flying every hour possible, a DZO needs to make sure he's not putting his livelihood in the hands of a less than adequate pilot. At things in that area have changed for the better over the years!

I applaud your vigilance and professionalism.

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~