Time to give up for a while?

[mjosparky 3]

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Its a sport, remember? not just a $$$$$$ generator.

Far too many people forget that skydiving is a recreational activity. All they can see is what’s in it for “me”. What can I do to get free jumps, free gear and anything else free? Things that use to be free to a new jumper now have a price tag on it. There are even rules in place to prevent other wise qualified, experienced jumpers from jumping with new jumper for free.

The same thing happened to skiing about 20 years ago and today you can’t get out of the parking lot with being charged for something. Skydiving has lost it’s soul and many of the things that bound jumpers together.

Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[mjosparky 3]

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I know Joel doesn't need sticking up for, but I think this is a bit harsh.

You may think it’s harsh, I think it’s truthful. There are more people making money off of students than there are students staying in the sport.

Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[nigel99 143]

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I know Joel doesn't need sticking up for, but I think this is a bit harsh.

You may think it’s harsh, I think it’s truthful. There are more people making money off of students than there are students staying in the sport.

Sparky

I think a variation on the US system would be best. An A licensed jumper should be able to jump with any B+ jumper. I've seen some sketchy jumps when 2,3 or 4 newly minted A jumpers try and do RW.

Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

[Joellercoaster 6]

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You may think it’s harsh, I think it’s truthful. There are more people making money off of students than there are students staying in the sport.

I think (hope) we're talking about different things.

There are coaches who mostly coach - that's what they do, and they're good at it. Dedication to it costs them money and opportunities for other things. And there are maybe some people taking the piss, getting free jumps from people who may not really know much better - or are forced into their hands because they're not allowed to jump with anyone else. To be honest, I haven't met that many of the latter but maybe we drink in different bars or something.

The issue is emotive in the UK because as the rule stands right now, you need to get coach jumps. Nowhere does it say you need a coach rating or that you have to pay for them, but unfortunately that's the way it's panned out at the moment, at a lot of dropzones.

--
"I'll tell you how all skydivers are judged, . They are judged by the laws of physics." - kkeenan

"You jump out, pull the string and either live or die. What's there to be good at?

[nigel99 143]

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There are coaches who mostly coach - that's what they do, and they're good at it. Dedication to it costs them money and opportunities for other things. And there are maybe some people taking the piss, getting free jumps from people who may not really know much better - or are forced into their hands because they're not allowed to jump with anyone else. To be honest, I haven't met that many of the latter but maybe we drink in different bars or something.

My fairly recent experience with coaches has been varied. 2 coaches spent alot of time doing prep work with me before the jump. We also spent considerable time debriefing afterwards. Interestingly neither of these guys charged for their slot or time. My worst experience was a paid coach jump. No time was spent debriefing prior to the jump or afterwards. Frankly I felt let down as it was supposed to be a dive and dock and she left the plane AFTER me and couldn't get down to me. I only found out afterwards that she was supposed to go first.

One aspect to bear in mind, for someone who has about 100 jumps it can be fun to jump with people recently off of student status. You are both learning, as you have to fly your butt off to (try) and compensate for their lack of experience. Throw in the spotting and exit separation, checking over their gear and I really wonder if the new A person or the 100 jump wonder is getting more out of the experience.

Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

[ps5601 0]

It used to be that novice jumpers could jump with more experienced people in the UK, but some of the "experienced" people were only just able to keep themselves stable and were outright dangerous (jump number may be high, doesn't mean they are good).

As the sport (at least in the UK) moved from small club jumpers to larger skydiving centres and people moved around more it became harder for everyone to know everyone, who to stay clear of and who to go to for coaching. So, the BPA now have a FS (formation skydiving) coaches rating - it is pretty simple for anyone half decent to get (2 years in the sport and 300 jumps with proven FS and coaching ability I think). In theory, if you have the FS coaches rating you are good enough to coach and there are a lot of them around.

The trouble is, like everything else some coaches are better than others. There is no "rule" on coaching costs either. The unwritten rule is that the student covers the cost of the slot of the coach, some DZs have reduced costs for coaching slots to help with this (oh and once the student "graduates" they buy the beer!)

If the person coaching is a world class skydiver you would expect to pay slot and then some. If they are your mate you would expect mate's rates, nearly everyone though is just cover the slot.

A good coach will GUARANTEE that they will always be in the right place in the sky, and will spend quite some time on a brief and de-brief. If your coach can't sit with you then they ain't a good coach and you should get someone else. If they want to charge you money (not just cover slot) ask around, if people can't say "oh, that's X - they won the nationals/world meet/is a professional coach" then don't pay!

The other problem is that a lot of people like me go to the DZ for a specific event (team training, boogie etc - not at all when it's cold) and don't just hang around, and so are not available to help out - I have no idea how to fix that.

However, if you can find a good coach (knows their stuff, isn't asking for money) hold on to them! A good coach will save you LOTS of time and money - even with the cost of covering slots. You will learn faster and be better and safer for it.

Blue skies

Paul

[pincheck 0]

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Its a sport, remember? not just a $$$$$$ generator.

Far too many people forget that skydiving is a recreational activity. All they can see is what’s in it for “me”. What can I do to get free jumps, free gear and anything else free? Things that use to be free to a new jumper now have a price tag on it. There are even rules in place to prevent other wise qualified, experienced jumpers from jumping with new jumper for free.

The same thing happened to skiing about 20 years ago and today you can’t get out of the parking lot with being charged for something. Skydiving has lost it’s soul and many of the things that bound jumpers together.

Sparky

Quiet frankly Sparky i sadly agree with what you said and wish it was different. I got to do the silly stuff like funky exits with more experienced people than me that made learning fun which kept me in it. By the looks to it the wheels have come off that happy bubble.

Joel

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There are coaches who mostly coach - that's what they do, and they're good at it. Dedication to it costs them money and opportunities for other things

yes but that's their choice Joel, nobody forced them to give stuff up. I am Sure you have had the same experience as me when learning and been lucky enough to have been helped By coaches who didn't always charge but seen it was for a way for them to help fellow jumpers get ahead by either free advice or jumping on their own ticket. Sadly i have noticed over the last few years to a certain degree that's been steadily been declining as more experienced people have been leaving in the UK for one reason or another and its having a real detrimental effect to Uk jumping mate.

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