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Amyr

Stupid Newbie Question

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Ok I have only had 6 jumps going for my 7th. 2 of these were Tandem out of 6 I have had one ass plant that hurt bad and landed upside down on my head on one and on one shoulder sliding in on two others. My two tandem landing were perfect. The ground hurts I know I need to learn to land and flare. In the mean time is it possible to wear a motor cross crash suit or some of those football pants to protect me until I learn or is there something I can wear to protect me?

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Landing problems are not uncommon among new jumpers. Learning to flare the canopy properly takes time, and different wind conditions can call for different flare timing and technique.

Falling down, on the other hand, is something you have control over, and you need to exercise that control. I know they taught you a PLF in your first jump course, and you need to use it. Feet and knees tight together, arms in and tight to your body, and you take the impact with your feet, then knees, then hip, then roll. It spreads the impact out over all those point, and keeps you from getting hurt.

Moving forward, recruit a local jumper, student or camera flyer who is not on you load to film your landing. Who ever you get, make sure they know why you want the video, for training purposes, and maybe have them stand in the LZ to film it. Have them borrow a 'real' camera from the one of the video guys, a cell phone video is not good enough.

Review the video with an instructor after your jump, and have them point out your flare point, if you flared all the way, and how well you did your PLF. Do this on every jump until your landings are consistant and your confidence goes up.

Many DZ downplay the importance of canopy control training, but don't fall into that trap. It's more important than stable exits and being able to do turns in freefall, and I'm sure they spend plenty of time on those things. All you need to be able to do in freefall is get stable for deployment, everything else is just extra. If you cannot make a safe landing every time, you won't be jumping for long. Even a sprained ankle will ground you for 6 to 8 weeks, set you back a level of two in your training, and just overall suck.

The training your DZ wants to give you is the minimum they require for their studetns, there's no reason you can't do more to enhance your learning experience. If you want your landings filmed and debreifed, make that happen. If you want to repeat a level, or work more on one skill or another, speak up and get it done.

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Before your next jump - tell your instructors your problem, and ask for time to focus on this issue.

I don't know what your issues are, but the most common are:

1) Looking down while landing. You can't run when looking down. Try it without a parachute. SOLUTION: at 100 feet remind yourself, say it outloud, "look to the horizon, look to the horizon."

2) Not flaring at the right altitude. To practice, find a staircase and walk up about 10 steps and look out to the horizon... Work with your instructors.

3) Not flaring evenly, or raising one or both hands after flaring.

Bottom line - you need to communicate with your instructors you need/want help.

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im on jump 18 and yes i still have some hard landings. I found if i stare at the ground i will all ways either flare too high and PLF or flare too low and slide in on my ass....

BUT if i look out at the horizon and the surrounding buildings to get a sense of hight i always stand it up.... not sure if it correct. I am always looking for more advice on landings!
Cheers

Jon W

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I am always looking for more advice on landings!



See my comments above regarding video. Nothing beats a good video of your landing to illustrate exactly what you are, or are not, doing. It's free and easy, unlike most things in skydiving.

See if you can team up with an another student or newbie, and alternate filming each others landings.

Video tips -

No cell phones, borrow a real video camera.

Stand in the LZ, and try to not use zoom. Agree on a place to land, and work on your accuracy while getting good video.

If you need to be out of the LZ and use a zoom, use a tripod or rest the camera on a picnic table.

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I did not know I was going to smack the earth Yes they have told me a lot to learn my PLF better. But how can you PLF when you hite the damn ground before you know your going to I thought PLF was when you know your going to hite I did not know just did and Yeas my instructors have me on radio I have me on radio I just heard my ass yell flare before they did HELP ME!!!!!

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My feet have yet to touch the ground to even try to PLF. I can trip i can break things I can run into things but I just can not seem to fall on purpose I really LOVE sky diving and am willing to do what ever it takes to stay in this sport. DOES NOT MEAN SEXUAL FAVORS GUYS

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I did not know I was going to smack the earth Yes they have told me a lot to learn my PLF better. But how can you PLF when you hite the damn ground before you know your going to I thought PLF was when you know your going to hite I did not know just did and Yeas my instructors have me on radio I have me on radio I just heard my ass yell flare before they did HELP ME!!!!!



It's very hard (read, impossible) to teach someone to land over the 'net.

Some tips though: keep your legs TOGETHER. You can do this while you're still up high, say just after you turn to final, you put your knees and feet together and you KEEP them that way untill after you've landed.
Make sure you keep your feet underneath you, never ever put your feet up front. This way you'll land feet first, regardless of when you THINK you will hit the ground, which is the first step of your PLF. Ie, you do not start your PLF at the moment that you land, rather you prepare for it a couple meters up already.

Just landing on both feet at the same time will save you 75% of hurt. The last 25% is finishing the PLF roll, and after that learning to flare at the right time and at the right speed, for which as mentioned the video is a very valuable tool.

Until you have flaring down pat, keep your feet together and PLF like you mean it.

ciel bleu,
Saskia

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Conventional wisdom about the PLF back when people used to do them all the time:
1. Don't look straight down. Your eyes will deceive you (more on that later). Instead, look out at the horizon, or slightly below the horizon (i.e. a 45 degree angle or so).
2. Be in the ready-to-PLF position as you get close to the ground. That way you're ready to PLF. What is the ready-to-PLF position? Feet and knees together, knees slightly bent. Pretend you have a $100 bill between your knees and you want to keep it there.
3. When you land, you want to be slightly angled one side or the other (chances are you will be). The order of contact is feet-knees-hips-roll over your back-get back up.
4. What to do with your hands? Well, they've been flaring and controlling your canopy until you land. Keep them close to your sides, and as you land, bring them even closer. Don't ever use them to brace your fall.

Why do your eyes fool you? Because you're not accelerating. Your eyes and mind are used to jumping off objects; your brain knows that you'll keep going faster until you hit the ground. So, at somewhere between 6 and 15 feet, your brain will say "now I know where I am, let me calculate the impact speed after acceleration -- OH SHIT!!!"

So until your brain learns that you won't keep accelerating, look out more. It really, really helps.

Why be ready for a PLF when you might stand up? Well, after a hard landing, you're realizing that you don't necessarily know which is going to be a good landing, and which is going to be a bad landing. Why not be ready for the bad one until you can tell the difference? That way you're trusting to skill, and not luck.

How to practice? Jump off something onto peagravel or something else soft. A DZ might have a pea gravel pit. Otherwise, most playgrounds will have a soft absorbent surface, or you can just do it on the ground. Students used to be trained off a 3' or 4' tall platform at the practice pit. Most DZ's don't have those any more.

Good luck. A good landing fall is probably your most commonly-used emergency procedure, and one that you can practice in live situations (i.e. landing) without endangering yourself. Cutaways are a little more risky to practice on live jumps...

Wendy P.
There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

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Thank you I think I may get a video. I am now wondering if my problem may be from me closing my eyes. The thing that always kept me from ever trying this skydiving was always fear of the landing. I do not remember shutting my eyes in fear but every landing the time from about 15 meters up to hitting the ground is a total blank I do not remember any of my landings just hitting dirt jumping right up and wondering what the hell just happened do they all happen that quick or could I be shutting my eyes not knowing it? And would a vidoe show this?

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Make sure you keep your feet underneath you, never ever put your feet up front. This way you'll land feet first, regardless of when you THINK you will hit the ground, which is the first step of your PLF.



One thing I noticed when I was starting out was that when I practiced my flares up high I also tended to lift my legs up which meant that when I went to flare at landing I was also lifting my legs up. Slid a few landings in before I figured out why. So, for the OP, if you find that your feet aren't the first thing touching the ground, maybe check for this during your practice flares.

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I'm a noob so take this with a grain of salt.

I imagine some elbow, knees, and hip pads might be ok to wear under a jump suit as long as they don't restrict your movements. Maybe even some padded bicyclist shorts to help your bum, until you get your PLF to become second nature.

I've practiced PLFs by jumping off a small stool in the yard. Once I felt pretty smooth at that height I moved to a chair then a short ladder. Now I feel pretty comfortable about my PLF.

You might be closing your eyes on landing, which is not helping you, or it could that your brain is just blacking it out because landing is your big fear. I don't remember the first second or so of my first 4 jumps, never saw the plane fly away until jump 5. Time and conditioning your brain is what corrects the memory blackout.

My landings on radio were worse then my landings have been off radio. Have some faith in yourself and while your on radio have some faith in the radioman. They don't want to see you get hurt anymore then you want to get hurt.

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OK signed up for video If they will let me have it on my third attempt at class c jump. I am going to buy impact shorts today for Sundays jump. Am working the hell out of my PLF"S. ARE THEY SUPPOSED TO HURT? Or do you practice until they do not?

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Are PLF's supposed to hurt? Only if you do them on concrete or really hard ground, or your old enough that everything hurts. Otherwise, the idea is that they're not comfortable, but they move that discomfort over many separate parts of your body, so that no single part takes the brunt of the hurt.

Get with some grizzled instructor at your dropzone, and get them to watch you do some PLF's.

Wendy P.
There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

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There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots.

Do you trust anonymous online advice more than that from your in-person instructors? If so, find different instructors.
" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

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... You might be closing your eyes on landing, which is not helping you, or it could that your brain is just blacking it out because landing is your big fear. ...

"

.......................................................................

Common responses to fear.
When people get too scared, they suffer tunnel-vision and deafness.
The first step is to remind yourself to breath. The second step is self-talk about keeping your knees together, watching the horizon, etc.

In the long run, you want to develop skills similar to the best canopy pilots and FLY your way through the landing. Assess the situation, make a control input, assess whether that control input is making the desired flight path change, make another control input, assess whether that control input is making the desired response, repeat as necessary,
These are all high speed skills that take a while ... read hundreds of practices .. to learn.

I strongly encourage you to read some of the self-help books written by Brian Germaine. When I first met Brian - back in 1994 - he was just becoming a professional skydiver. Since then he has become a canopy designer, skydiving guru ... oh! and for a side-job, Brian has a masters degree in psychology!

Some of Brian Germaine's talks are available on www.youtube.com.

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My non-instructor/still-Newbie $0.02?

I could PLF nicely right from my FJC. What I couldn't always do, was fly my canopy to a position to do a nice PLF. I'd get surprised & slammed during the last few feet. My knees especially took a beating during several of my student jumps. I was tempted to wear a set of leathers w/body armor, but didn't. I do wish I'd worn some cheap knee pads, though. You can get a set of slip-on knee pads for about $12. They'll fit under your jumpsuit, & won't get in the way. You don't need any other pads. Work w/your instructors to better fly your canopy, & practice PLFs. The ground can hurt you no matter how much padding you wear. Make learning how not to take those hits a priority.

Corrupted Mr.Miagi quote: "Best way to avoid getting hit? Don't be there."

Edit to add: I forgot...never...NEVER land on your ass. You can really hurt yourself.

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... 3. When you land, you want to be slightly angled one side or the other (chances are you will be). The order of contact is feet-knees-hips-roll over your back-get back up. ...

Wendy P.



......................................................................

Just to clarify Wendy's post ...
... try to use the big muscles - along the SIDE of your body to cushion the impact - sort of like a judo roll.
The sequences is: balls of the feet, calf, thigh, butt and diagonally across the back.

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I do wish I'd worn some cheap knee pads, though. You can get a set of slip-on knee pads for about $12. They'll fit under your jumpsuit, & won't get in the way.



I would recommend against this if you can. I also had a tendency to land and then fall down on my knees when I was learning so had some beautiful bruises on the knees and thought I'd pull out the old volleyball knee pads to protect myself from further injuries since I certainly wasn't going to stop jumping for a few weeks to let the knees recover. Ended up pivoting on one of those knees in the doorway of the plane without lifting the knee and tore my meniscus. Doubt I would've done it if I hadn't been wearing the knee pads. Bruises go away in a few weeks, torn meniscus, not so much.

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I do wish I'd worn some cheap knee pads, though. You can get a set of slip-on knee pads for about $12. They'll fit under your jumpsuit, & won't get in the way.



I would recommend against this if you can. I also had a tendency to land and then fall down on my knees when I was learning so had some beautiful bruises on the knees and thought I'd pull out the old volleyball knee pads to protect myself from further injuries since I certainly wasn't going to stop jumping for a few weeks to let the knees recover. Ended up pivoting on one of those knees in the doorway of the plane without lifting the knee and tore my meniscus. Doubt I would've done it if I hadn't been wearing the knee pads. Bruises go away in a few weeks, torn meniscus, not so much.



What? How the Heck did you do that? You sure it wasn't a prior tear you didn't know about earlier? Think carpet & hardwood flooring installers. Those guys spend several hours a day pivoting on their knees. If you had a weak knee that was about to go. It would've went anyway, pads or not.

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I usually keep my mouth shut waiting for a answer to a question will come up instead of firing hundreds of questions I have asked questions but I should by now already know how to PLF Its like asking someone how do you dance on their 6th day of dance class. And as far as asking strangers for advice everyone has different views and ways of doing things and I hope by asking I will find the one that works best for me. I do trust my instructors but I can not help but hear others that may or may not know more then I will ever learn. THank you for your help you all are great

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