Infinity riser wear issue

[crowbar 0]

Within the last year I started jumping Infinity containers after being a Vector 3 fan for the last five years. I bought a used Infinity container last year as a backup rig, had it resized and, in general, was really pleased with the quality of the work and turn-around time. When it was time for me to buy a new rig I decided to go with Infinity – the build time was only six weeks. This one, like the used one, looked and fit well and upon receipt my master rigger and I looked it over and saw absolutely nothing wrong with it aside from the right-side reserve grommet on the cutaway housing, which sometimes flipped 180 over on itself. Since the season started I’ve put approximately 100-150 jumps on it. In that small span of time I’ve had more issues with Infinity than I ever did in my five years of owning multiple Vector containers.
I’ve got over 4500 jumps and do 1000 plus jumps a year as a videographer. You could almost classify me as OCD concerning the condition of my gear, from the dirt on my lens all the way up to the wear on my rig. I’ve had only two cutaways in all those jumps...
Infinity’s safety problems stem from the design of the risers. From the pictures below you can see that Infinity connects the riser grommet to the hard housing. Because the reserve grommet flipped, I was concerned that it would wear faster than normal, so I checked it regularly, literally before every jump. At work about a week and a half ago my day started like it does every other day. I checked my gear, did a few jumps and throughout them saw nothing had changed. Halfway through the day I got down from a jump and went to pack my rig and saw wear on the right-side white loop. When I looked closer I saw that the white loop was frayed more than halfway through!! I was shocked and scared because I had just checked it and there was nothing. After such a short amount of time no one would think that there’d be such a defect on a rig that you can, a) get any such damage after only 100-150 jumps, and b) that such an extreme amount of damage could happen in only one jump!! It would have snapped on the next jump for sure. If I was lucky it might happen on opening and I could hopefully recover. If I were less lucky that day it would have snapped in my hook turn and I’d be dead or a vegetable.
After checking out the setup of the risers I could tell, as could everyone else on my drop zone, that the grommets and housing were apparently scraping together and they developed a sharp edge. This edge is what cut through the loop. I was obviously upset, but shit happens, sometimes products have defects and need to have parts of them repaired or replaced. I went to Infinity with my problem, showed them pictures and was looking for them to fix it so that it was safe, and to do it quickly since I depend on that rig for half of my livelihood. The rep I spoke with was friendly enough, but wouldn’t take any sort of accountability for the product that he’s representing. He basically said he’d never seen anything this bad and didn’t believe me when I told him that it happened in one jump. His way of trying to make me feel better was to tell me that if it snapped, it would have happened on opening, never showing concern that the loop shouldn’t have had damage like that in the first place. He didn’t even wait until he saw the rig with his own eyes before he essentially blamed me for letting it get that far. I asked that Infinity pay to have it overnighted there and back for obvious reasons. He nickel-and-dimed me, said that he couldn’t justify the expense. He’d pay for three day shipping, but I had to pay the difference.
After paying more than two grand a couple months ago for the container, now I had to pay out of my own pocket to ship it there so that they could fix their own defect. I thought it was hilarious when I read on their website that, “VSE has grown year after year by building a quality product and backing it up with fair and fast service.” It was so funny to me because not only did I have to pay to have it overnighted when I did nothing wrong, but also when I got the rig back from them “fixed” they hadn’t replaced anything but the one loop and a single grommet. They left the worn and used riser and didn’t even change my left-side white loop that also was wearing after hardly any jumps. This loop, he said, “showed a little wear, but nothing major. That wear looks to me more like an indication of use, most likely from packing or handling the rig. No biggie.” Infinity states on their website, “There are many requirements when shopping for gear but the two that should never be compromised are safety and quality.” Seriously?? This from a company whose rigger will let a riser out of his factory worn and frayed as if it was 100% ok to jump?! My old Vector risers show less wear after 1000+ jumps than these Infinity risers do after 150!!
It is a shame because, although the rig fits well and looks good, the lack of care and concern that went into this hardware flaw that could’ve killed me is most likely going to make me sell these rigs and go with a company that actually puts pride in making sure that there product safety and customer service is #1 and doesn’t just pay lip service to them.

[ineed2fly 0]

That hard housing grommet design does seem like a poor design, creating a situtaion where metal on metal could saw that loop in half like you experienced. Although the wear on the other white loop does look like packing wear as the damage looks like where the white loop would sit ontop of the small ring (where it would wear when the rig sits on the ground face down during packing) Sorry to hear about your poor experience with them though, but I dont think it would've been much different with any other manufacturer.

Those white loops do freak me out though, espcially on my base gear. I understand the physics behind it, and that loop is FAR stronger than the few lbs actually applied to it. It's still kinda freaky

"As soon as you're born you start dying. So you might as well, have a good time."
-CAKE

I'm crazy not stupid. There is a difference.

[rmsmith 1]

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After paying more than two grand a couple months ago for the container, now I had to pay out of my own pocket to ship it there so that they could fix their own defect.

You've been around the sport long enough to know that all the gear is custom "one-off" made, not mass produced like the car you drive to the drop zone. Best to "man-up" and FEDEX it, ASAP.

FWIW, you really should have two rigs if your business plan can't miss a weekend or two.

[Morrison79 0]

And use the enter key once in a while....

[Krip 2]

Hi Mr Crowbar

In jumping especially the amount your doing in a Year OCD is a good thing.
I'm not a rigger and I don't jump anymore.

I've looked at the the first pic you posted

Phone reps come and go, have good days and bad. But the buck stops at the top. Thats Mr Farrington it's his company, his products, his customers and his employee.

I suspect by taking the express route with your post in public you'll get Mr Farringtons attention and other owners to.

Is their a flaw in the infinity system's new design?. I'm not qualified to say. I knew Mr Farrington he's been in the bussinesss for a long time and has a rep for a quality product. I'd expect the Boss to do the right thing if you give the boss a chance.

"What you have here maybe a failure to communicate" (cool hand luke)

God luck, happy filming, OCD is a good thing when your jumping and working.

R.I.P.

One Jump Wonder

[crowbar 0]

the shipping charges weren't the big issue here i did ship it out ups on my dime.. it was the way he handled it and the comments he said . like, Dont worry if it would of broke it would of happened on opening .. and being to laid back about it seemed to me like the lack of care... he also told me if i want it done faster just to have my rigger put a new grommet on the reserve hard housing. wouldn't you think for something like this you would want the rig back to fine out what caused it and that it cant happen to anyone else??

[crowbar 0]

sorry wrote it in word and cut and pasted it...

[masterrigger1 2]

Crowbar,

First sorry that you had issues with your gear.

Second the metal to metal theory is probably incorrect.
The more plausible theory is the old story of the stamping dies used to set the grommets, have dulled, thus leaving a burr or sharp edge.
These sharp edges are sometimes hard to detect with just a visual inspection.

From the photos that you have provided, I will bet the above is the problem.
I have seen this happen with every major rig out there today at least once in my career.

Sometimes #@it just happens! Just glad that you caught this one!

Also, Kelly Farrington runs a standup business, and probably is (or was) unaware of this situation at his business.
But you know what, I bet a dollar against a donut that this is fixed; Pronto!

BS,
MEL

Skyworks Parachute Service, LLC
www.Skyworksparachuteservice.com

[diablopilot 2]

In response to your overly dramatic title for this post, yes I think they are, and I've got about 4000 jumps on them to back that up.

In response to your issue, take it up with the manufacturer, I know they will do right if they have found a problem.

----------------------------------------------
You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[dqpacker 7]

gavins vse risers just did this the other day. he's sending them back

[crowbar 0]

yes the title may be alittle dramatic but if you read the post im not stating that the gear is crap and im not trying to bash the company.. i state that i like the container its more the way they handled it ... I tried getting in contact with kelly. I left messages for him on the phone and sending email to his personal email address and Nothing. I wrote that title so people would want to open the post up and see whats up. sorry if its a little to dramatic for you..
If kelly is ok with how it was handled and how is workers can send back a riser that is frayed and say its minor wear and it ok to jump, in my opinion doest care much for his customer safety and that i have a problem with.

I sent the whole rig back and they didnt do the right thing.. Im just posting this so people keep an eye out and this doesnt happen to someone else

[JohnMitchell 14]

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yes the title may be alittle dramatic but if you read the post im not stating that the gear is crap and im not trying to bash the company..

So maybe "Is Infinity's costumer service worth a damn?" would be a better title?

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sorry if its a little to dramatic for

Apology accepted.

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I sent the whole rig back and they didnt do the right thing.. Im just posting this so people keep an eye out and this doesnt happen to someone else

I appreciate your safety comments and sharp eye. I probably wouldn't have spotted the beginning wear on the left riser. I don't think it's a design flaw, or I would have seen it on the many other Infinity rigs I work with or wear. Sounds like a bad grommet set job. Nothing to be happy about with that. I suspect you could call Kelly, let him know your concerns and have him ship you some new risers.

BTW, seeing my loop look like that would freak me out a bit too.

[Martini 0]

Is the sharp edge on the riser grommet or on the lug at the end of the cutaway cable housing?

Sometimes you eat the bear..............

[Martini 0]

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That hard housing grommet design does seem like a poor design

The design has been in use for years, the problem appears to be a manufacturing or material defect.

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Those white loops do freak me out though, espcially on my base gear.

A broken loop on a BASE jump is an ugly scene, some jumpers use plastic ties through the grommet and ring as a backup when a cutaway would be unlikely.

Sometimes you eat the bear..............

[crowbar 0]

it was on the cut away housing..but part of the riser housing was worn form the reserve lug of the cutaway housing.

[JohnRich 4]

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The more plausible theory is the old story of the stamping dies used to set the grommets, have dulled, thus leaving a burr or sharp edge.

We had a new jumper out at the DZ with a borrowed university club rig, which we discovered with this same problem. I'd never seen anything like it before, and took photos. Unfortunately, my photos came out a bit blurry, so I didn't post them at the time. But now that you've raised this issue, I'll post what I've got.

We concluded that the loop was being cut by a sharp edge on the grommet, just as you say. We grounded the rig, and the jumper was loaned a DZ student rig so he could jump. We were unable to break the loop by pulling on it by hand, but it was seriously damaged, and there's no telling how much longer it would have lasted.

I'm changing the thread title in my post, because I'm not going to be part of a witch hunt against a manufacturer.

[monkycndo 0]

I'm a little confused. How is the reserve, which you keep referring to, involved with the main riser loop/ hard housing? Your first post had me completely confused until I saw the pictures. But still don't understand how the grommet flipped 180 degrees as you mentioned in your first post. Can you explain which grommet you are talking about?

For someone in the sport this long and number of jumps made, I'm a little surprised you don't know the common names of the equipment, since you are so gear safety conscious. Not being able to describe a problem leads to confusion.

I have an Infinity and love the rig. I appreciate that you wanted to bring to EVERYONE'S attention that there might be a manufacturing problem with the VSE risers and I thank you for giving a heads up. But badmouthing a company to get your point across just sounds like sour grapes. In all my dealings with VSE, they have always been responsive.

50 donations so far. Give it a try.

You know you want to spank it
Jump an Infinity

[jdfreefly 1]

My wife's infinity had a similar issue. We sent the riser that had the fraying back to have the loop replaced. A month later it was fraying again.

Took it into action air and the rigger figured that the lug on the end of the cutaway cable had developed a bur, most likely from striking the hardhousing mount on the riser. Took an emery cloth to the lug and had the rigger replace the loop again. She hasn't put many jumps on it since but it's probably good to go.

All of this maintenance was paid for by us, but I don't really mind. The rig is 6 years old. If it's happening on brand new rigs, I would call it a design problem. If it's happening on rigs and risers with over a thousand jumps, I would call it a maintenance problem. You're supposed to check that shit, and you're supposed to fix what you find wrong.

Methane Freefly - got stink?

[JerryBaumchen 1,046]

Hi Mark,

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The more plausible theory is the old story of the stamping dies used to set the grommets, have dulled, thus leaving a burr or sharp edge.

When I saw the photos I came to the same conclusion.

To crowbar: Kelly & his family have been on vacation in NE Oregon for a week or so and he has just returned to the shop.

Also, they do have some new employees now so you may have gotten one the the 'new' folks when you called.

JerryBaumchen

[lewmonst 0]

Doesn't VSE outsource the construction of their risers?

http://www.exitshot.com

[shermanator 3]

I had the exact same problem with the loop on my infinity a few years back. If I recall correctly, They replaced my risers for me.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v468/thebando/100_4433.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v468/thebando/100_4432.jpg

CLICK HERE! new blog posted 9/21/08
CSA #720

[Martini 0]

Well this is getting interesting, the OP states that the problem is with the cutaway cable housing lug:

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it was on the cut away housing..but part of the riser housing was worn form the reserve lug of the cutaway housing.

But others talk of replacing risers:

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I had the exact same problem with the loop on my infinity a few years back. If I recall correctly, They replaced my risers for me.

Replacing the risers or at least the damaged loop is obvious no matter who does it. What about resolving the underlying problem? Is it a problem on the riser grommet/lug-grommet or is the problem with the cutaway cable housing lug? I haven't finished examining either of my Infinity containers or the four canopies on risers that rotate in and out of them but so far no damage. Then again at my current rate of jumping I wouldn't expect to see any new damage. I imagine there are a lot of Infinity owners checking for damage right now, it will be interesting to hear of any problems found. It would also be nice to hear from owners of other container and riser brands to get some perspective.

Sometimes you eat the bear..............

[JohnMitchell 14]

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Doesn't VSE outsource the construction of their risers?

Last I heard they built them in house.

[crowbar 0]

OK to clear things up...its the Cutaway hard housing ... The grommet on top of the right side got a burred edge. There was no burr on it when i received it NEW..
Now then the risers where stowed the right side grommet on the "cutaway" housing grommet would turn clockwise 180'ish when it laid at rest under the riser when packed.. hope that is easier to understand

And i am a little mad to the fact that i called and wrote emails to talk to kelly about this and i still haven't heard from him.

It would of been fine if when i sent it to get fixed it was done right the first time. But what i got back was a Useless pair of risers and how i have to spend more money to get a New pair or risers that wont break on me.

BUT Once again Im NOT stating that in anyway or form that the company sucks and that there containers are bad. "Im still jumping mine"... ALL im saying is that I had a BIG problem with my gear which is brand new and they DIDN'T handle it right. If i owned this rig for away and and a couple hundred jumps then i wouldn't be a big deal BUT thats not the case.

It is surprising to me that when i was talking on the phone with them he did state to me that he hasn't seen fraying like that before but look now seems like im not the only one..

[JohnMitchell 14]

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And i am a little mad to the fact that i called and wrote emails to talk to kelly about this and i still haven't heard from him.

Someone said he may be on vacation. Still, good customer service shouldn't come to a stand still.

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It would of been fine if when i sent it to get fixed it was done right the first time. But what i got back was a Useless pair of risers and how i have to spend more money to get a New pair or risers that wont break on me.

I'm a bit puzzled. The burr was on the risers. Did the new one fix that? I know you want the other one replaced. Would a new pair of VSE risers fix that, or are you going to purchase another brand? If you're fine with the VSE risers, tell them to send you a free pair, and pay the shipping.

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BUT Once again Im NOT stating that in anyway or form that the company sucks and that their containers are bad.

UHHM, MAYBE JUST A LITTLE IN YOUR THREAD TITLE.

Please PM me if you don't get a decent resolution soon. I'd be glad to help.