USPA's "Championship" Demo Team?

[airtwardo 6]

I gotta wonder what the organization is thinking...


According to Parachutist, the USPA has 'borrowed' 10,000 from the US Team fund in order to fund a professional demonstration team consisting of past and present US Team members. Their stated goal is to get exposure for the sport by performing at large venue airshow nationwide...

Gee, I've been doing that on my own dime for 30 plus years, now the organization that is supposed to be representing me is going into direct competition with me and literally dozens of other already established professional demonstration teams?

The article goes on to state that the organization will send the 'champion competitors' to a 'demo camp' in order to instill demo skills...wonder if they will offer to pencil the PRO Rating as well, wonder how many 'special waivers' will be granted to the USPA Team that aren't available to the self-funded teams?

I know what it costs and what all is involved in running a team, so I gotta wonder where the 'rest' of the money needed will be coming from, that 10,000 will cover the ICAS Convention but that's about it, what about training, gear, flags, smoke, travel, advertising, press packages, handouts...things that need to be in place before you ever even sign a contract for pay.

I'm curious as to how much USPA administrative 'time' that the membership pays for, will be directed toward the promoting, organizing, administrating & managing of 'this' team?

Ya couldn't make this stuff up...the busiest demo team on the circuit is the Golden Knights which is funded by our tax dollars.
We fund their training, give 'em aircraft, gear, travel, pay them wages, give 'em medical, dental & retirement benefits etc...
It's kinda unfair 'paying for' AND trying to compete with them, but it is what it is, and they DO have a 20 million dollar 'job' to do - - - recruitment.

NOW...our sport's governing organization is preparing to go into competition with a segment of the very people it is 'supposed' to be representing, in my opinion that's just wrong.

The only thing that would put further frosting on this turd, is if the organization asked some of us experienced demo guys to assist in the training of their 'dream-team'...



I've been in the demo game since 1978, all of the PRO teams I've come in contact with over the years go above and beyond to promote the sport of Skydiving in a professional, progressive & positive manner, why does the USPA feel they can do a 'better' job of that with a thrown together team?

There are a finite number of these venues available, it is an extremely competitive market and the profit margin is slim if any at all...apparently the USPA's plan is to under-cut the established demonstration teams using funds that were NOT earmarked for that purpose. THAT smells a little funny...

I wonder how long it will be until the USPA goes into the 'Boggie Business' going into direct competition with the drop-zones promoting those types of events...while they are at it they might as well start manufacturing and marketing gear, and heck borrow some more organization funds and start up an aircraft leasing company too!

It looks to be an obvious conflict of interest to go into competition with the very people you are supposed to be representing...to be HELPING.

Is this just a case of 'good ole boy' lets put a team together and have some fun? The only requirement seems to be a past or present competitor, don't even need any actual demo experience...wow, THAT is a great idea!
~if the people to be jumping these demos were actually motivated enough to become involved in the demo industry on the professional level, shouldn't they do it the way the rest of us have, and not use the organizations money, reputation and corporate resources as a springboard?

Or is it a simple uninformed mismanagement of resources...what kind of homework has the organization done regarding the feasibility of this program's success...I would love to see a mission statement and business plan, is there one or are they just hoping it'll work?

I'd hope the next 'loan' the USPA demo team takes out is for the annual insurance policy, that's only another 10 grand...but it would give some limited protection to the overall operation should something go bad, hate to see the whole corporation go down the tubes!

Do they have any realistic idea as to the current return on investment running a professional demonstration team HAS?

What it costs to market a team and prepare one? What the average airshow pays skydiving performers for a show?

The article in Parachutist says the USPA did one 30 years ago and it went well...can you imagine setting up a business because you did something once three decades ago?
-go to a bank and try to get an investment loan with THAT listed as market research on your business plan!



The whole thing is batshit crazy from every angle~ What the heck is going on here?!


If you have an opinion on this matter, PLEASE drop Jimmy Hayhurst or Ed Scott an email at USPA or give your RD a call...let them know, somebody didn't think this through very well.

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[normiss 622]

In full agreement 'Twardo.

We do NOT pay our membership dues for them to make demo jumps.
I would not support this in any way and will make that known.

Thanks for the heads up.

[Amazon 7]

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I gotta wonder what the organization is thinking...

As the man said......











Follow the money

[dpreguy 14]

I ahve written an email letter to Exec Director Ed Scott, and James Hayhurst explaining, in short, that this is a bad idea and an idea repugnant to me. Why? Our organization is going to ICAS and will be underbidding the civilian teams because USPA is fronting all of the costs of ICAS and everything else, all done with membership dues! Dues that the soon to be outbid teams are paying too. What a betrayal!

Obvious question: If this "soon to be put together team" is already competent; why do they need to go to a "camp"? (Oh yeah, this will be paid by USPA membership dues too) I think I know why. They don't even have PRO ratings, and USPA is going to pay them to get the rating! How nice. They can get thdir PRO ratings and do their first demo all at the same time. After just attending this camp, they will instantly be competent demo jumpers. This is obvious, because everyone knows that if you are great at 4 way or 8 way or swooping or style and accuracy, or freestyle, you are automatically a great demo jumper. Sure. Everyone knows that. Also, it states they will do "...fresh entertaining acts..." Not bad for a bunch of team members doing their first demo. I'd love to listen to the saleperson at ICAS selling this non existent team, and hear how great the team is going to be, once it is put together, and once it is put through a camp....yaddayadda. Ridiculous.

I feel kinda ambushed at this point, as it is already a done deal. What were the board members thinking? The amount of our dues money that will be required will be huge and ongoing. And this, to further the nebulous goal of "promoting skydiving'? Sounds like a great investment of our dues money.

According to the editorial in the October Parchutist, the team will consist of the "best competitors in virually all of the best competitors in virtually every skydiving discipline". Oh really? 4 way? 8 way? These are one trick ponies, by choice, and that is a good thing. That's how they win championships, and I respect and admire thdir skills. Even so, I doubt many even have PRO ratings. Or even want to do demos. So, the statement that the "team" will consist of champions" is phony baloney. (Note how the editorial shifts from the first paragrahs describing "champions", to simply "the best".)In order to be safe and successful, the team will have to be hand picked demo jumpers. If not we will have "champions" who don't know squat about doing demos. Newbies. So new they have to go to a camp to get their PRO ratings.

This is a bad idea. A bad idea funded by our membership dues. It is just wrong.

[popsjumper 2]

...another good example of the "Us vs Them" good ol' boy network.



We keep voting them in...
They keep hosing us...

Nothing new here.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[piisfish 135]

Twardo was doing demos before the word "champion" was invented

scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

[skybytch 259]

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We do NOT pay our membership dues for them to make demo jumps.

Aw, c'mon guys. It's only a little bit of money and these are legends in the sport! Just think of how many couch potatoes will come out to do their one time tandem parachute amusement ride because of it! It's GREAT marketing for the sport!!!



I'd like my last couple donations back...

[diablopilot 2]

I'm in total agreement with you Jim. I may just have to start going to Meetings again just to keep an eye on the BOD. It's just such a hit to my pocket book.......

----------------------------------------------
You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[FastRon 0]

Note that USPA is visting the traps that other national organizations fall into, It is happening in waterskiing, the NRA, the AKC, US Government- you name it- out of touch with the members/tax payers it is supposed to protect and serve.
What's the best way to compell them to pay attention?

[popsjumper 2]

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What's the best way to compell them to pay attention?

Simple...vote them out.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[davelepka 4]

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Their stated goal is to get exposure for the sport by performing at large venue airshow nationwide...

me and literally dozens of other already established professional demonstration teams?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but part of this 'team' business is going to be training the jumpers on how to interact with the crowd and how to promote the USPA, and providing literature to distribute to the crowds, right?

How about they trim the budget a bit and cut out the team itself, and simply partner with the existing pro demo teams out there and have them talk up the USPA and pass out literature?

The obvious answer is because someone 'wants' to have a demo team, and it's not their money that's being used to fund it. The truth is, that this is the exact type of service that's 10x more cost effective to outsource. While 'outsourcing' has become a negative in terms of companies shipping jobs overseas, when done correctly (and responsibly), it's a smart business move and what anyone who gives two shits about the bottom line would do.

Why should the USPA shoulder the cost of going into the demo business, when existing pro teams have already done that and amortized those costs over years of doing actual demos? That's not even mentioning the fact that the USPA team would be competing with it's own, dues paying members, but when you add that in, it makes even less sense.

Let me ask you this, how many demos do you need to do for a team to make a profit of $10k? Forget about the costs of training or equipment, just for fun let's assume that all the jumpers are already trained and equipped, and that the jumpers are willing to work for a reasonable per-diem, just how many demos will it take for the 'team' to make a profit of $10K and pay the membership back?

Whatever the answer is, let's all remember that this not the type of deal where the USPA will 'loan' the 'team' $10k, and once it's paid back the USPA owns a profitable demo team. Equipment will wear out and need to be replaced, and jumpers will move on and new ones will need to be trained.

What a bullshit waste of time and money. The biggest reason being that anyone going to Oshkosh, or any big arishow is already interested in aviation, and 99% of them have a smartphone in their pocket and could hunt down the USPA or a local DZ within minutes of watching ANY demo team jump. It almost reminds me of the Skyride scam where they're not actaully bringing in new business, just grabbing onto people already looking to make a jump and calling them 'their' customers. In this case the USPA is doing the exact same job the other teams are doing, but they're going to be able to undercut the other teams in bidding for the jobs thanks to our money.

[karlm 0]

It's amazing to see such lack of simple business "know how" within the USPA. Most companies would fund such an idea from a marketing budget, but no, the USPA will deny the competition part of our sport and those who represent the country on the world stage, these funds.

Time to either make a change with your votes or you wallet. USPA Fees are being mismanaged on a continued basis, well thats how it looks from the outside.

Better never to have met you in my dream than to wake and reach for hands that are not there.

[airtwardo 6]

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We do NOT pay our membership dues for them to make demo jumps.

Aw, c'mon guys. It's only a little bit of money and these are legends in the sport! Just think of how many couch potatoes will come out to do their one time tandem parachute amusement ride because of it! It's GREAT marketing for the sport!!!



I'd like my last couple donations back...

I bet a lot of people would feel the same way regarding their donations if they were aware beforehand that the USPA would be utilizing those monies to work AGAINST the most public segment of the dues paying membership.

This whole idea is just wrong on so many levels, it amazes me that the leadership would willingly support something so ill conceived.

PLEASE make your feeling known to Ed Scott and the entire board of directors, to those in support of taking our non-profit organization into a 'for-profit' business venture that hurts already established business.

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[avgjoe 0]

Where is Slade when we need him? RIP buddy

How can they arbitrarily reassign the capital from our donations? Or does it say championship team? Is there a national meet to determine who is the best at demo's? What a horrible slap in the face to all people who are trying to scrape by doing demo's.

When all else fails lets kick in the teeth of our longest and most visible members.


Avgjoe
Hook it for safety

[NWFlyer 2]

http://www.uspa.org/AboutUSPA/Donations/tabid/316/Default.aspx

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USPA established the U.S. Parachute Team Trust Fund in 1986 for the benefit of amateur parachuting team competition. The tax-exempt fund holds all donations in irrevocable trust and the interest it earns is distributed evenly to U.S. Teams for international competition.

Interesting interpretation of how that fund can be used.

And by interesting I mean completely inappropriate and incorrect.

"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

[skybytch 259]

I think I'll ask USPA to give me some money from the Airport Access Defense fund to help me take our canopy course nationwide. Canopy collisions kill skydivers and dead skydivers cause airport managers to kick dz's off airports, so it makes total sense for money donated by others for one specific purpose to be used in this way.

And if I have the official seal of USPA support, I can use that in my advertising so my course appears "better" than everyone else's. Thus putting at least some of them out of business, and doing it while using THEIR money. It's capitalism at it's finest!

[airtwardo 6]

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http://www.uspa.org/AboutUSPA/Donations/tabid/316/Default.aspx

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USPA established the U.S. Parachute Team Trust Fund in 1986 for the benefit of amateur parachuting team competition. The tax-exempt fund holds all donations in irrevocable trust and the interest it earns is distributed evenly to U.S. Teams for international competition.

Interesting interpretation of how that fund can be used.

And by interesting I mean completely inappropriate and incorrect.

Couldn't agree more, like I said...somebody didn't think this through very well.

There actually IS a portion of our annual dues that go into a program that is supposed to already be doing what the formation of this 'USPA Demo Team' claims it is being set up to do...Bring the sport media attention.

It's a considerable amount of money that for years has been lavished on poorly designed and wastefully instituted marketing campaigns that have absolutely NO way of measuring results.

This is just another in that long line of kinda/sorta/ maybe ~ 'SOUNDS like a good idea' ~ programs that can not be measured or monitored for results either way as any competently run 'actual' business would want to do with a promotional campaign.

How does the USPA plan to collate data in regard to this 'latest' marketing scheme to ascertain what effect (if any) the projected cost per exposure with have on the stated goals...??

Does the USPA even HAVE anyone with actual experience IN the market & public relations field, or really understands how it works... or are they just blindly throwing money around 'hoping' for something productive?

I know they continue to hire high priced outside consultants to assist in the promotion of the sport...they justify the expenses by always painting a flowery picture of unprovable / untrackable results...bad business practice for any corporation and one heck of a sorry ass incompetent way to run a membership funded 'limited financial resources' rodeo!

Who's the Hell is drivin' this bus and isn't it about time we get them a MAP?!

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[airtwardo 6]

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I think I'll ask USPA to give me some money from the Airport Access Defense fund to help me take our canopy course nationwide. Canopy collisions kill skydivers and dead skydivers cause airport managers to kick dz's off airports, so it makes total sense for money donated by others for one specific purpose to be used in this way.

And if I have the official seal of USPA support, I can use that in my advertising so my course appears "better" than everyone else's. Thus putting at least some of them out of business, and doing it while using THEIR money. It's capitalism at it's finest!

Come on...fess up, you're running for the BOD aren't ya.

You've obviously been studying the secret operations manual!

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[avgjoe 0]

Now lets think about solutions. If the USPA wants to have a "championship" demo team why don't we organize a demo nationals (all rules in the competition manual) and compete for the right to be the official demo team. Have the team split the competition funds interest evenly with all other disciplines.

Or do we have the USPA negotiate a national demo contract the farm out the work to the local pro rated jumpers through the regional director who should know the local people who are qualified to perform the demo.

[NWFlyer 2]

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According to Parachutist, the USPA has 'borrowed' 10,000 from the US Team fund in order to fund a professional demonstration team consisting of past and present US Team members. Their stated goal is to get exposure for the sport by performing at large venue airshow nationwide...

So... I went back and read the actual text in the October Parachutist. I think that it's pretty clear that they will NOT be borrowing from the Trust Fund.

Here's the last part of the last paragraph "Because there are restrictions on how tax-deductible donations to the independently administered U.S. Parachute Team Trust Fund may be used, USPA loaned $10,000 to the effort, to be repaid with interest from next year's proceeds."

So, we can argue over whether this is the right thing for our dues money to support, but it's pretty clear that the Trust Fund isn't being touched here.

"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

[DSE 3]

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I think I'll ask USPA to give me some money from the Airport Access Defense fund to help me take our canopy course nationwide. Canopy collisions kill skydivers and dead skydivers cause airport managers to kick dz's off airports, so it makes total sense for money donated by others for one specific purpose to be used in this way.

And if I have the official seal of USPA support, I can use that in my advertising so my course appears "better" than everyone else's. Thus putting at least some of them out of business, and doing it while using THEIR money. It's capitalism at it's finest!

Come on...fess up, you're running for the BOD aren't ya.

You've obviously been studying the secret operations manual!

So...we spend 100k a year in salaries and other expenses on "sport promotion" and now an additional set of funds are being taken to do the same.
USPA has had several chances to get promotional content on computers and software from two of the largest software/computer companies in the world (for 2500.00) but couldn't "justify the expense."
2500.00 divided by 1M accesses=.0025 cents per impression.
Figure the demo team and sport promotion might reach 1M people per year at large events and television. That works out to be more than a dime per impression.
.002 vs .10, and the .10 competes with existing, contributing demo teams?


I'm very confused.

[JohnMitchell 14]

Hell, the best exposure to our sport is the tandem rig. Demo jumps into anywhere may get a lot of "oohs and ahhhs" but it doesn't roll people out to the dropzone. Tandems and word-of-mouth seem to be doing that.

Maybe the USPA should help finance "Point Break: Part 2" if they want to increase participation.

If the USPA really does feel demos are the magical tool to increase our sport's membership, then supporting and promoting PRO rated groups in various regions would be much more cost effective.

It really does sound like "the good ole boy" network made this one up. Our champions may be very important and impressive to us, but outside of our sport, the whuffos don't care who is jumping into the stadium. They just want to see smoke and flags.

We, of course, just want to see a safe, on target landing.

[airtwardo 6]

[email protected]


The above email address goes to all the USPA Board of Directors.

I urge you to take a moment and drop them a note expressing your concerns regarding the obvious misuse of resources to form a 'for profit' venture that is in direct competition with (and will do nothing more than fiscally harm) dozens of 'privately funded' teams/business that are owned and operated by the very people the organization is supposed to be HELPING.

They need to return the funds 'borrowed' from the pool of donations that were put into that tax exempt account, which was set up for the sole intent to defray the cost of international competition.

That is an unwise and EXTREMELY unethical misuse of membership dollars that is both a blatant conflict of interest and counterproductive to the organization charter.

PLEASE take a couple minutes and send a note... let the board know they have made a mistake here!

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[skybytch 259]

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So, we can argue over whether this is the right thing for our dues money to support, but it's pretty clear that the Trust Fund isn't being touched here.

Jan Meyer posted the meeting minutes on my facebook rant. The money is NOT coming from the Trust Fund.

Which doesn't make it any more palatable, but since I'm not a current, dues paying USPA member my opinion doesn't matter.

Your opinion does, though. Tell the BOD that this is not how you want your dues to be spent and why. And go to the next meeting and request a loan from USPA to finance your skydiving related business idea.

[airtwardo 6]

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According to Parachutist, the USPA has 'borrowed' 10,000 from the US Team fund in order to fund a professional demonstration team consisting of past and present US Team members. Their stated goal is to get exposure for the sport by performing at large venue airshow nationwide...

So... I went back and read the actual text in the October Parachutist. I think that it's pretty clear that they will NOT be borrowing from the Trust Fund.

Here's the last part of the last paragraph "Because there are restrictions on how tax-deductible donations to the independently administered U.S. Parachute Team Trust Fund may be used, USPA loaned $10,000 to the effort, to be repaid with interest from next year's proceeds."

So, we can argue over whether this is the right thing for our dues money to support, but it's pretty clear that the Trust Fund isn't being touched here.

Interesting...you may be right, which would be even WORSE.

I took it to mean the trust fund money 'itself' couldn't legally be used to fund the venture, but they were circumventing that intent of the law by 'loaning' the monies 'with interest' to be paid back into the competition fund by the profitable proceeds from the demonstration team.

I figured the wouldn't have even mentioned the competition fund otherwise...but you are probably correct.
Want to or not, EVERYBODY will be paying for the self-appointed USPA demo team.






If in fact that is the case, and the organization is using membership dues to start a business competing financially in a limited market ...with dues paying members of that same organization that they have been charted to 'protect', then every member OF the USPA should be outraged at the misuse of their dues.

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~