danielcroft 2 #201 November 15, 2011 I wonder how much damage the "US Demo Team" can do in that time? Wait, maybe "US" is actually "us" and not "United States"? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MakeItHappen 15 #202 November 15, 2011 Here's my opinion on 'Free Demos', written some +20 years ago, but still rings true. http://makeithappen.com/spsj/freebies.htm What was said at the Summer BOD mtg and what has proven to be true, are not one and the same. The BOD really cannot do anything about this until the next BOD mtg. You can bet that the way this has been implemented - so far - is NOT what I agreed to. There is a concept in there that can work, but if it turns into a good-old-boys or 'special people', it needs to shut down or diverted from USPA support. Keep writing the BOD members, some of them have a 'well I have to get at least x many emails about this to consider it an issue' .. Make It Happen Parachute History DiveMaker Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyjumpenfool 2 #203 November 15, 2011 Quote Here's my opinion on 'Free Demos', written some +20 years ago, but still rings true. http://makeithappen.com/spsj/freebies.htm Um?? There's nothing "FREE" about it. USPA (you and me) is flipping the bill in the form of a "loan". How is that free? So, to be accurate, this is way worse than a free demo. As the Dropzone Turns... Episode 3... Stitch, the old rigger who lives in the canvas tent down by the tree line, is arrested by Officer Banger (the new "Lady Cop" in town). He convinces her he's not a vagrant by taking her for a "FREE" Tandem ride. In the process, Stitch introduces her to the Mile High club. Officer Banger reappears in episode 8. She earns another FREE skydive by busting Shutter on a bogus drug charge. Jillian is not happy! Birdshit & Fools Productions "Son, only two things fall from the sky." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Krip 2 #204 November 15, 2011 Quote Jim - you should send that advice in to the USPA with a $1500 consultancy bill. Quote Yeah but it would come out of the general fund, then I would just be fuckin' the members of an organization I pay dues to be a part of, wouldn't be ethical! Hi Mr T If you want to be "ethical" about it. I think this is the way some of the USPA headquarters staff would do it. Charge USPA a $3,000 consulting fee. Since your a member of USPA and a all around great person, you can give the membership a 50% discount for your services and collect the $1,500 consulting fee. K-RIPOne Jump Wonder Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 6 #205 November 15, 2011 QuoteHere's my opinion on 'Free Demos', written some +20 years ago, but still rings true. http://makeithappen.com/spsj/freebies.htm What was said at the Summer BOD mtg and what has proven to be true, are not one and the same. The BOD really cannot do anything about this until the next BOD mtg. You can bet that the way this has been implemented - so far - is NOT what I agreed to. There is a concept in there that can work, but if it turns into a good-old-boys or 'special people', it needs to shut down or diverted from USPA support. Keep writing the BOD members, some of them have a 'well I have to get at least x many emails about this to consider it an issue' . Hi Jan~ I know that by the 'rules' nothing supposedly can be done about this situation until the next scheduled BOD meeting, well after the ICAS convention by the way...I'm just wondering, 'If' the case of such a blatant conflict of interest isn't enough to offer the BOD a special circumstances re-vote, or at least a halt to what's going on--- what does? I would also like to thank you and several other members of the board that have been very supportive of the general memberships concerns and are forthcoming regarding their thoughts on this program now that more 'facts' are coming out. I know a few that feel a bit bum-rushed in the way it way presented and especially in the way it's been handled since questions have been raised. I fully doubt that it would be anywhere near the unanimous vote it got since as you say the description isn't at all what it is/will be. I would also like to urge everyone with concerns about the direction this move takes the organization to PLEASE contact the board as a whole... [email protected] ...let them know your concerns and that you care, just a few lines in an email can get the point across! I can't stress enough how important contacting the leaders of OUR organization is, let them hear YOUR voice! ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JCW1966 0 #206 November 18, 2011 Had an interesting conversation with someone who does demos. But the thing that they said that stuck in my mind the most is this. If the USPA can loan money to start a demo team regardless of the conflict of interest it may have with it's membership, then what is to stop them from opening a dz and directing business to it? Same difference. The BOD is using membership dues to fund something that may wind up competing with the membership whose dues were loaned out to finance this to begin with. Doesn't matter if it's a demo team, a dz, or an aircraft leasing business. It's a conflict of interest for a governing body to do such a thing using it's membership dues. I have a trip to Longbeach, CA in February. Anyone have the dates and location for the BOD meeting they're having? I would like to drop in and watch our BOD in action. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DSE 3 #207 November 18, 2011 Feb 17 - Feb 19 San Diego Hoping the BOD will break free to visit a few DZ's in the area. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #208 November 18, 2011 Quote Feb 17 - Feb 19 San Diego Hoping the BOD will break free to visit a few DZ's in the area. All three or four of them that actually *still* skydive?--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 7 #209 November 18, 2011 QuoteIf the USPA can loan money to start a demo team regardless of the conflict of interest it may have with it's membership, then what is to stop them from opening a dz and directing business to it? A bit of a stretch.... BUT, I could see them starting a tandem section like the GK's (using the EXACT same logic they did for the demo team). And I could even see them starting a "USPA 4way team" (and using the EXACT same logic)."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JCW1966 0 #210 November 18, 2011 Quote A bit of a stretch.... BUT, I could see them starting a tandem section like the GK's (using the EXACT same logic they did for the demo team). And I could even see them starting a "USPA 4way team" (and using the EXACT same logic). Yeah I think it would be a stretch too. Just wanted to point out how their logic could be used to justify that line of thinking. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #211 November 18, 2011 Should there be a reconsideration of someones USPA staff employment when the loan is NOT repaid to USPA??? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
beowulf 1 #212 November 18, 2011 The USPA should not be in the business of loaning money in the first place, especially to staff members. Just my opinion. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 6 #213 November 18, 2011 Quote The USPA should not be in the business of loaning money in the first place, especially to staff members. Just my opinion. The definition of 'Good Ole Boy' network! High risk loan No repayment schedule No business plan Money to be used for an obvious conflict of interest regarding members of the organization. When Mr. Scott says they 'make such investments all the time', it makes ya wonder to who, what for and was it ever repaid? I sure hope they look into 'other' investments better than THIS one! ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
oldwomanc6 38 #214 November 19, 2011 Quote Quote The USPA should not be in the business of loaning money in the first place, especially to staff members. Just my opinion. The definition of 'Good Ole Boy' network! High risk loan No repayment schedule No business plan Money to be used for an obvious conflict of interest regarding members of the organization. When Mr. Scott says they 'make such investments all the time', it makes ya wonder to who, what for and was it ever repaid? I sure hope they look into 'other' investments better than THIS one! Is there any accountability?lisa WSCR 594 FB 1023 CBDB 9 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stratostar 5 #215 November 19, 2011 Not for some time.you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Krip 2 #216 November 19, 2011 Quote Quote Quote The USPA should not be in the business of loaning money in the first place, especially to staff members. Just my opinion. The definition of 'Good Ole Boy' network! High risk loan No repayment schedule No business plan Money to be used for an obvious conflict of interest regarding members of the organization. When Mr. Scott says they 'make such investments all the time', it makes ya wonder to who, what for and was it ever repaid? I sure hope they look into 'other' investments better than THIS one! Is there any accountability? Sure there is .Larry, Moe and Curly.OTOH on a more serious note Folks it is what it is, "easier to get forgiveness than permission." It's not like USPA is going to invade a country looking for WMD's , Eventually the good old boys will get themselves in a bucket of shit that is to deep to crawl out of. Like a lot of other organizations,K-RIP Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stratostar 5 #217 November 19, 2011 Dear USPA board members, I'm writing to express my displeasure in your handing out a loan for 10K to send Jim Hayhurst to attend the ICAS Convention to try to get airshow contracts and then build a demo team, and use USPA office staff to book demos for this new team. 1. it's a conflict of interest 2. your doing a dis-service to every pro rating card holder in the membership. 3. Your handing out OUR dues monies and not letting US members have any say on the matter, we now have online voting, WE the members of USPA should have a vote on this matter! 4. Mr. Hayhurst need to go get a bank loan and stop sucking the membership dry of due funds for his pet project. 5. Your actions will hurt other teams who have been doing the airshows for a very long time without any funding from USPA, they sure as hell never were given a 10k hand out from anyone. Bad enough our tax money is wasted on the golden knights and then teams and demo teams have to fund there own way to compete with them and now the USPA as well, bogus! Was there any collateral for this 10K hand out of USPA member money? Seems to me Mr. Hayhurst needs to step down and resign from USPA and go on his own and use his own money for this little project and stop ripping off the USPA members, he can do it like all the other non funded teams in the USA and pay his dues to earn his place like all the others have done for years! USPA has shown time & time again it's now a DZO and insider trade group and it's no longer about the members as a whole but the select few who have the pull to get their way regardless of members input, hell you guys can't even have enough respect for US members to ask for our input before handing out OUR money or settling with skyride, you do as you damn well please with no member input.... no not everyone can take time off or afford to attend your meetings.... remember that online voting thing? Maybe you should try using that for the membership to vote on these stupid ideas that waste OUR money! Hey, I think a better idea would be for USPA to fund and build a wind tunnel across the street from that joint Kirk Verner runs and one on a big rig to travel the country, USPA can pay for it , use USPA staff to market them and do bookings for both of them and staff them and even send a team around to all the other wind tunnels in the country to stand outside those businesses and run the mobile unit and hand out flyers for free tunnel time in NC with a donation to the US team fund, all paid for by USPA membership dues, we will make a killing and should have the two tunnels paid for in one years time. I don't think any of the current tunnel owners would care, after all we could be getting some corporate sponsorships for the US team & I bet we could even get bud light to sponsor Friday night "buzz flights" and we can see who is the best in the world at flying drunk, we can hand out what ever Kool-aid the BOD is being served. Now I don't have a business plan, just an idea, I don't have a team in place or the equipment to do this, BUT if you guys & gals would be so kind as to give me an unsecured loan for 10.5 million in membership dues, I bet I can get these two tunnels built at a discount, I know a guy who dose welding, we could have the mobile unit up and running in no time flat that should help get some repayment right away.... and just think about how well that mobile unit will go over @ airshows, talk about making the big bucks! I'll be awaiting my check so I can get started right away on this project, seeing how the members won't have a vote on my idea, besides that, everyone knows it's a great idea, just look at all the money those tunnels make. On another note, how long is the USPA going to condone a RD supporting and jumping @ Lodi with all the problems out there? What kind of message is that sending to the USPA members out there? What kind of message is that sending to the FAA and NTSB? After all was that all just fluffy BS out of HQ about cleaning up the industry and showing the FAA & NTSB we self policing... how about if they have major crash there because of the piss poor MX Bill has been doing (see king air crash in Canada) and that RD's dead body is in the pile of non seat belt wearing loads they fly... seems to me USPA looks pretty stupid having a board member who has a history of jumping there for 20 some years, can't play the stupid card, "I didn't know all this was going on" (yea right) with a history of years of supporting a place like that. Again what kind of message is that sending to the FAA and members of USPA in that area. That RD has a duty seek the truth on behalf of the members he was elected to represent and provide them with the facts in the name of safety. So much for self policing! Oh, I forgot this is all about do as we say not as we do, right? Come on guys & gals, get it together and stop wasting our money and our time with feel good stories about doing the right thing to clean up the industry and not support shady operators, while a BOD member blows off everything your telling everyone else to do! Have a good day.you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 6 #218 November 19, 2011 Hey, I think a better idea would be for USPA to fund and build a wind tunnel across the street from that joint Kirk Verner runs and one on a big rig to travel the country, Quote THAT might put the Conflict Of Interest thing in a much clearer light for some! You could always use the "It's a FREE MARKET" excuse to get the loan passed through though... ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stratostar 5 #219 November 19, 2011 I'm just looking forward to all the free travel and tunnel time I'll get as the one who will over see this pet project, might even get some free gear out of the deal. you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
danielcroft 2 #220 November 21, 2011 You forgot to mention buying booth space, how can you possibly be any good at something if you don't have booth space? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
futuredivot 0 #221 November 23, 2011 QuoteAfter hearing from some dot dot dot, blah blah blah OK, I read the .doc and I got to ask...What!? A word of advice, sometimes you got to admit you made a bad choice because continuing to defend it just loses you legitimacy.You are only as strong as the prey you devour Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #222 November 23, 2011 What...you guys skeered of a little competition? It's the 'Merican way.My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Para5-0 0 #223 November 30, 2011 I plan on it as does several others. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyjumpenfool 2 #224 November 30, 2011 Quote I plan on it as does several others. Great! Your going to visit DZ's. But, what do you and the others plan to do about this whole Demo Team issue????? I for one am watching this issue very closely. Even though, I don't do Demos anymore. Birdshit & Fools Productions "Son, only two things fall from the sky." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
matthewcline 0 #225 November 30, 2011 http://skydiveuspa.wordpress.com/2011/11/30/refocusing-the-u-s-parachute-team-sponsorship-program/ FYI MattAn Instructors first concern is student safety. So, start being safe, first!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
