Leaving the sport

[flyangel2 2]

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I can think of a number of people you could do 4-ways with (people like Paul and Melaby come to mind).

Hey, what about me????

I guess it's time I jump in on this discussion since someone called our DZs here in Colorado "backwards" or something like that. I take offence to that statement. Sure, I don't jump here that often since I travel, but when I do jump here in Colorado, I jump with anyone and everyone. Just ask Steve, I even did some jumps with him. The two major DZs in the state both have King Airs, that doesn't sound "backwards" to me. So, to the guy that posted his opinion about us being backwards, how do you know unless you've jumped here?
Kelli, what I have found that works best for me, is getting a group together before the weekend. Then we spend the day doing jumps together. Yes, it's hard to just head out to the DZ and wait and see who is going to show up. I think it's because we all have lifes outside of jumping, not because we're being clicky. I will gladly put you and Derek both on the list that we send out to set up jump days.
Someone else also asked if there were jumpers with higher numbers that haven't gotten burned out or quit. I have over 3,000 skydives and haven't quit. Sure, I take a break during the winter months and don't jump as much. I have a life outside skydiving and enjoy snowboarding and rock climbing. If I really feel the need to make a skydive, I head out to the DZ or do a road trip for a holiday boogie to Eloy.

May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view. May your mountains rise into and above the clouds. - Edward Abbey

[happythoughts 0]

I hear people talking about cliques, but I think that it is a misinterpretation.

I have been jumping at one dz for a number of years. When I walk up, someone says "We are on load xx with zz, give me a ticket..." People tend to want to hang with their friends.

Experienced people want to do challenging stuff and expand their skills also. If a person can't do their part, the organizer has a responsibility to the others in the group also.

I agree with the point that people should make their own friends and make plans to meet them at the dz. Problem solved.

That said, if someone ever meets me at a dz, I will jump with anyone regardless of skill level. I may even forget a point and apologize (like last week).

People jumped with me when I had low numbers. I do it because I enjoy it. It is fun and relaxing to do low pressure stuff.

[scottjaco 0]

Wow hold on guys, I think you are taking what I'm saying way TOO PERSONALLY!!! however I have a point to make here!

I've had many experiences where I've visited other dropzones besides the "big two" perris/elsinore around california.

This is one example.......I'm not going to name dropzones out of respect for peoples "feelings" but my feelings are also valid....

They rented a twin otter from Perris, I went up there on
a Sunday (my mistake) instead of Saturday, everyone was hungover....I got there at 10am and only got to do 1 load! I drove an hour and a half to do 1 load....

Apparently the twin otter had to be flown back to Perris for some reason? proably because the 3 other turbine planes they had weren't enough!

The only saving grace was that there was leftover beer from the night before.....this definatly made up for the lack of jumps I got to make...so I'm not mad!

Ohh I should mention that they brought out the c-182 after the otter left, but nobody wanted to pay 20 bucks to fly to 10K. I kinda felt bad for the DZ owner because I like the Dropzone and I want them to succeed but I was kinda pissed about the good plane leaving.

Ohh and about the turbine controversy....yes...true...I will not jump at a dropzone that does not have turbines. Like I said...Perris has spoiled me rotten.
When they get the DC-9 JET working.....I'll probably never go anywhere else!

I started skydiving out of a King Air at 14K now I'm stuck doing 12.5 everywhere else. I can only prey that
Air Adventures West reopens soon!

I do however like the nostalgia aspect of jumping out of c-182....theres nothing wrong with that....I just have better options, sorry like I said I'm spoiled.

You all think I'm insulting you personally! Like I said, I'm just talking about planes and load numbers here.

I wasn't questioning the skill level of the skydivers that jump at these places.

I don't think the attitudes I express are causing people to leave the sport of skydiving. Gees! You all have the balls to jump out of an airplane but can't handle a guy's constructive remarks?

scott

[VanillaSkyGirl 6]

Yes, it means laughing my ass off, but you know (as we are friends) that I didn't mean any ill will towards you with my post. Yet, I am surprised that you are talking about backwards DZs like that as you and I began to jump at Air Adventures West. I know that you liked it there, Scott.

Btw, there is a free 2-way camp in Elsinore where you can learn more RW skills if you are ever interested. If I am free the next time that I see you at a DZ, then we should make a jump together. I will try a "sit" if you get on your belly, deal?

Edited: Nevermind about the small DZ comments, I just read your last post.

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[jlmiracle 7]

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I kinda felt bad for the DZ owner because I like the Dropzone and I want them to succeed but I was kinda pissed about the good plane leaving.

scott

What constitutes a "good" plane? I thought a good plane was a well maintained airplane that you can jump out of.

Oh jaco, get ready to get flamed again.

Judy

Be kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle.

[PhreeZone 15]

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As for drama, I simply don't play. I am Dramaphobic as hell. And I'm older, and I'm not single. I think an awful lot of drama comes from the hook-ups and break ups

I think there are different types of drama. Sure there is the relationship type of drama that comes with the types of relationships that happen on DZ's. But there is also load drama and employment drama.

Getting cut from loads just to allow the LO's friends into it causes some people to get frustrated, alienating other jumpers due to behavior either in the air, on the DZ or off the DZ is another source of drama. Along the same lines is the experince/skill level of a DZ. if there is no clear "master" of a certian disicipline at a DZ then every one will try to claim it and will instist their method is the only/best way. What this is expressed in is teaching to newer jumpers. Small DZ's tend to have this happen a lot since there are few freefliers at 182 DZ's that are great, the intermediate level jumpers fight over who is best and who can teach new freefliers.

Employment drama seems to happen as soon as someone earns their first rating. All of a sudden they just want to be treated as one of the regular staff, the staff wants to treat them like they are not as good as the existing staff. This could be expressed as priority on students, having to teach all the FJC's and only doing minimal jumps or having to take the large tandem students. Videographers are not expemt because they can get into the envy of "its not fair, he's got more money to buy a digital set up and I can only afford film so he gets more/better jumps" or they are always being forced to fly at the limits of their ability due to too large or too small of student/TM combos. There are dozens of other issues that trying to make money off of jumping can cause. It might even be something like full time jumpers are mad that it seems that the weekend only staff is cutting into their livelyhood.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[Remster 24]

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a guy's constructive remarks?

let me ROTFLMAO again!

If you call those comments constructive remarks, I'd love to hear make unsubstnatiated claims!

Remster

[skybytch 259]

Posting this one for dgskydive, who for some strange reason can't post from work

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That sucks that Sundays are dead at these backward dropzones in the middle of bumfuck nowhere. What is the deal with these dropzones?

Grasshopper you have much to learn! There are a lot more "little" DZ's out there then there are Big ones. The little DZ's are the back bone of
skydiving! You have just insulted more than half of the skydiving world. The deal with them is they may not have big turbine aircraft but they are the birthing place of some of the best skydivers in the world! Not
everyone starts at Perris or Eloy. They migrate there over time.

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I'm spoiled rotten

You said it!

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Come to Perris on a Sunday.....it's a little different......
here at a real dropzone.

Don't make people hate us now. We want them to come and play with us. We want them to love our home as much as we do. If it weren't for the
visitors that Perris gets all the time we would not be able to jump as much ourselves. Look real close at the people out there during the week. Different faces all the time. They are the folks from (your words) "backwards" Dz's coming to play with our big airplanes and to make new friends. It's good to love Perris just don't diss everyone else in the
process. Small DZ spread out over the U.S. bring in more new jumpers every year then Perris. We need them.
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[PhreeZone 15]

>Apparently the twin otter had to be flown back to Perris for some reason? proably because the 3 other turbine planes they had weren't enough!

When I was there for the Memorial weekend Perris was just right at 2 Otters, so it might have returned just for the lack of useage.

>I drove an hour and a half to do 1 load....

Lots of people drive HOURS to jump a 182. There is nothing wrong with 182's. They have put more jumpers out then probally all turbines.

>When they get the DC-9 JET working.....I'll probably never go anywhere else!
Jet Price at WFFC was 60 or 70. Feel like paying that for every jump?

>I started skydiving out of a King Air at 14K now I'm stuck doing 12.5 everywhere else.

Just remember that with Perris being close to the AFB there they have to watch traffic more then other places. Plus they have to stay under 15k MSL.

>I will not jump at a dropzone that does not have turbines. Like I said...Perris has spoiled me rotten.

Some of the best skydives I've had are not for what happened in the air, but the conversations I've had on the ride up in a Cessna. Get out and hang at some small DZ's and you'll see the socal events there mean more to those jumpers then doing 15 jumps a day does.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[flyhi 24]

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I want to fly RW like Airspeed, GK, Majik, etc. The more I do RW, the more I realize there is to learn.

Actually, right now, Airsped and GK want to fly like Majik...or at least like they did last week.

Shit happens. And it usually happens because of physics.

[VanillaSkyGirl 6]

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We definitely need to jump sometime Rosa!!! I want to fly RW like Airspeed, GK, Majik, etc. The more I do RW, the more I realize there is to learn. Little nuances like a little more knee, or a hand position, an extra 'kick' out the door - turning points out in the sky with others is what is driving me to jump my butt off

Ohhh...I love the way that you think. I would be honored to jump with you! We could try to improve our RW skills together because I also want to be very good at 4-way, someday. Since we are trying to perfect our skills jump by jump (and are not anywhere near geting bored by this), I think that we will eventually get there.

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[happythoughts 0]

This is not directed at anyone, just a post to the topic.

I know people that got so focused on being competitive that once they reached their goal, there was nothing to motivate them to continue. They got bored because they forgot that skydiving is supposed to be fun. I train to get better, but only because it will be more fun then.

This is why, at WFFC, I only organize fun/silly/raft jumps or something challenging/thought-provoking for low-timers. I like fun, interesting, and learning in my jumps.

I have seen people quit due to injuries and the financial problems that they create. Everyone should have health insurance. An $80K hospital bill can destroy a lot of your life.

Marriage. When I hear that someone is engaged to a non-jumper, I ask what they want for their gear.

I have also known people who considered the consequences after knowing someone who went in. The "what would my kids do..." question. I respect that. Sometimes, it's not all about you.

[jeremyneas 0]

This thread is hilarious!!!! The truth couldn't be further than the wool I see draped everywhere.

Pitty my law classes compel me to keep my mouth shut. Humility is such a bitch sometimes. Lets just say that the way people act on DZ.COM is a WHOLE lot different that they are in person.

Believe what you want. I know I'm getting a personal laugh with my boys at the DZ.

[schattenjaeger 0]

I'm kinda with Jeremyneas on this, I don't see any of this at my DZ(which I'm not gonna name outta fear that I'll learn something about it that I'd rather learn directly than from some stranger online)and I know I only have 8 jumps, but 5 of those 8 took me a mininum of at least 2 whole days at the DZ, and my level 3 alone took around 4 or 5. So I've been there a lot, and I see a very simple world compared to what some of you have been describing. The cameramen are there to film, and jump when they have the chance, the riggers are there to pack, and jump when they have the chance, I've seen the instructors funjump occasionally but rarely, but they still seem to enjoy their jobs(which is good, I'd feel bad if my instructors were clearly bored by the whole thing)and so on. And in some ways I don't even consider this a sport. Sure, there are national compeititions and things like that, but the vast vast majority of us are never gonna be there doing that. This is as much a sport as going outside and playing a game of catch is with your friends(and obviously not keeping track of who's the best catcher!)and it should be approached with that same laid-back, friendly, let's go do it' cuz it's fun, attitude(with the obvious difference that much more care must be taken for safety)I've never met a jumper yet(and it's not a tiny DZ)that I haven't been able to walk up to, say hi, and get into a friendly conversation about anything(usually jumping)with! And I'm usually VERY shy! Now maybe I just haven't seen the racy underside of my DZ, but if every DZ was like mine(or at least my current intepretation of mine)then there'd be far fewer people leaving the sport. And yes, that's a bit rambly and disjointed I know, but I'm distracted and just had my wisdom teeth taken out. Yay for painkillers!

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[usedtajump 1]

Quote: I've never met a jumper yet(and it's not a tiny DZ)that I haven't been able to walk up to, say hi, and get into a friendly conversation about anything(usually jumping)with!
____________________________________________

See what happens if after you have, oh about 150 jumps, you walk up to one of those same jumpers who are organizing a 60 way, ask if there's still an open slot and see what kind of conversation you have with him then.

The older I get the less I care who I piss off.

[schattenjaeger 0]

Well in all fairness, I wouldn't even consider asking at 150 jumps. Hell, I'm the type of guy who if I get asked if I wanna go do a 4-way or something with some people, I'll let them know way in advance my skill level and make sure they won't mind if I make a mess of it! And if I were jumping with younger less experienced jumpers, well, if I'm in the mood to do a GOOD 4-way for whatever reason, I'll let them know in advance, otherwise I wouldn't care if they screwed it up.

[schattenjaeger 0]

Hell, kinda going back to my "playing catch" analogy, if you're there to play a friendly game of catch, you shouldn't be trying to play with the hardcore guys who are there to break their opponent's kneecaps or something(not saying skydiver's are tryin...well, dammit, it's not a GOOD analogy, sue me)

[usedtajump 1]

You miss my point. You could have 1000 jumps but if you're not "in" that group you are not "on" that jump.

The older I get the less I care who I piss off.

[schattenjaeger 0]

Umm, I think my Vicad(en? in? on?) frazzled mind is still missing the point. So you're saying if you don't know these particular people you aren't gonna get to go with them, or because you won't be able to go up 'cuz they're using up all the load space? 'cuz either way doesn't bother me, so long as they all pay, I understand them needing to go up as a group and there being a lot, and I also understand if they'd rather do it with people they knew.

[usedtajump 1]

OK, how about social circles, cliques, your not connected enough, you don't know the right people, you dont have your nose far enough up his ass. Does that help?

The older I get the less I care who I piss off.

[skybytch 259]

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You could have 1000 jumps but if you're not "in" that group you are not "on" that jump.

Well, if you haven't shown the organizer that you're good enough/current enough/safe enough for that groups goals then yeah, you probably won't be on that jump. Even though I have been on a successful 132 way, I wouldn't expect to be invited on a 60 way being organized by someone who doesn't know me and/or my skill level (not number of jumps, in air skills). Even if I drank beers with the organizer the night before.

[schattenjaeger 0]

I second skybytch

[Hooknswoop 19]

True, but I have seen cases where the person was qualified, and the group knew they were qualified, but they still wouldn't let that person on the load because they weren't part of the "in-crowd". It happens, a lot.

Derek

[Caseadilla 0]

Leave the sport, are you kidding me!
Like phreezone said, some of the best times I've had at the dropzone were in the 182 on the ride to altitude bs'ing and having fun. You know your a great skydiver when the pilot doesn't even turn around and he knows its you that produced that awful smell! Most all of those great times on the plane were followed by great skydives.

[kelpdiver 2]

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This topic's depressing :( Are they any skydivers here with numerous hundereds of jumps who HAVEN'T at some time or another left the sport or come within a hair's length of doing so?

You shouldn't see this as a negative. More than nearly any skill sport, you have to maintain currency, which can drain a lot of time. I can go months between diving in the water and resume without significant risk. But skydiving doesn't lend itself to that so well. If you can't or do not want to dedicate the time, it's better you not.

One can only maintain so many time consuming activities at one time, so jumping may sit back for a spell as one goes on to something new. This isn't quite the same as a "been there, done that, collected my tandem certificate for one dive" type participant you see in many sports. But not too far off.

I've only committed myself to finishing the AFF progressions, and at that point decide to continue to the next decision point (A). Initially I came in just to do a single AFF while some friends tandemed. But the time requirements of the sport will always been an issue for me personally.