PhreeZone 15 #101 October 22, 2003 Ahh.. the socal circle situation. Its easy to avoid the issues if you either A) never stick around for after jump activity and only do solos/coach jumps B) become such good friends with everyone and evenly split your time with everyone at a DZ. I've had to turn down bringing people on jumps with me since I did'nt trust their in air skills or that I just did'nt want them on the jump. You know how bad it feels be that person that does'nt get invited on a jump (even if you are qualified) for some reason? Now imagine seeing your friends that you started with get on jumps but you get turned down and you don't really understand why. Another thing is some organizers want you to commit to X jumps in a day before you can jump with them since they are working more on skills then on simple jumps. If you can't commit you get to watch everyone else do cool things while you sit out. There is one person at my DZ that meets the requirements for Wingsuit instruction but I will not teach him simply since I'm not sure that he meets the matuarity thats needed to deal with all the extra things involved in a wingsuit jump. I'm probally making him really mad, but I want to look out for his safety too. Until you get involved in the behind the scenes activities like working at a DZ most people do not see the conflicts there. I know of a guy (Not at my DZ) that was beat up from other members of the staff so he left. Working full time in the industy is a hard life with a lot of strong attitudes, thats a volitile combo. One thing that makes some women mad in the sport seems to be that a lot of men offer unsolicited advice to them all the time. Its almost like the guys are all trying to baby the women and are afraid to let them get hurt. Its common to see girls loading their first canopy at .9:1 but guys get by with > 1:1 and not much is said. If a woman would get something like a 1.2 loading all the guys will jump all over her "to keep her safe" but not another guy who does the same thing.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
scottjaco 0 #102 October 22, 2003 Well, another example....... today I called up Skydive SanDiego.....I'm visiting my parents who live about 1 hr. away. They tell me over the phone that they have tandems at 2pm and 3pm. I drive down there....arrive at 1:35pm and just as I'm pulling into the parking lot I see the damn Caravan taking off! Apparantly the info I got over the phone was bogus! The 3 tandems were there at 1pm! So I got screwed. There were no other fun jumpers there! I went into manifest and waited awhile and asked if this 3pm tandem was happening. Nope! cancelled. There will be no more loads today! Well, OK I responded, I was told over the phone that you had 2 groups of tandems today and that one that just left wasn't suppose to leave until after 2pm. Opps......sorry! was the response I got. I was really pissed because I could have driven the same distance to Perris or Elsinore and jumped. (I didn't say this to them), I tried to be as nice about it as possible but I was really annoyed that they gave me the wrong info......I guess I'll head up north to Perris or Elsinore where they do more than 1 load and have more than 1 "up jumper" visit per day! I'm not expecting them to do a load just for me but this is an example of how fustraiting small drop zones can be sometimes. I like Skydive SanDiego but I probably won't waste my time driving down there anymore. Hate to sound like an asshole but I just spent half of my day in traffic on the I-5 without my skydiving fix. scott Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jimbo 0 #103 October 22, 2003 QuoteHate to sound like an asshole Then quit posting to this thread. Quotebut I just spent half of my day in traffic on the I-5 without my skydiving fix. Whaa. - Jim"Like" - The modern day comma Good bye, my friends. You are missed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
scottjaco 0 #104 October 22, 2003 Nope, I think I'll stick around......if you want this thread to die....quit responding! bye the way, I am an asshole sometimes......deal? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skybytch 259 #105 October 22, 2003 You can't expect smaller dz's to be sending loads during the week. Should the dz have made the tandems wait until 2 pm on the off chance that you might show up? Perris is an awesome dz. So is Elsinore. But neither is the norm. Expecting smaller dz's to cater to you (as an "experienced" skydiver) the way they do at Perris... you're going to be disappointed every time you jump someplace else. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VanillaSkyGirl 6 #106 October 22, 2003 Oddly enough, although I am very new, I have been clued in a little to the politics that occur on DZs by friends in the know. It's there, and I have even subtly felt the tension in the air and wondered what was going on with this one or that one. A DZ is a competitive business, after all, and employees and regulars may be posturing for rank, etc. Being on a DZ is a "society within a society" with issues and egos that are sometimes magnified. Yet, like I said, I am new, so it doesn't affect me too much. However, if I feel that there is tension around a DZ, I either face it/expect it to be that way or I take off to another DZ for the weekend and relax. I don't mind when men offer me advice at my very green, newbie level (I actually like it), but I could see how it could be annoying to the skygoddesses that could probably teach some of the guys a thing or two. One more female issue that I have only seen at smaller DZs is that of the "queen bee complex". Does everyone know what I mean by that? It's really quite silly and sad. Jimbo and Scott ~ Stop the insanity! Now, make up and go jump out of a plane together! Btw, Scott, if you go to ANY DZ on a weekday, try going on Friday as there are more loads. This week is especially slow anywhere as those that usually train during the week are at Nationals. Also, of those three DZs, Perris is your best bet on a weekday. Elsinore still has my heart on the weekends, but they are all the bomb if you have a great attitude! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
scottjaco 0 #107 October 23, 2003 I undestand what you are saying...... I recieved the wrong info....that is what I'm upset about with Skydive SanDiego. If I had just went up there without calling, I'd have no cause to complain. Shit happens......I just expect better customer service. I e-mailed Skydive San Diego with my concerns. scott Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 15 #108 October 23, 2003 Small DZ's usually have a Cessna or two laying around that flies with 3 people. Its a great thing to show up out of the blue and do hop and pops all day just since one of the staff wants to work on his swoop or something. It also helps to call a few friends to say lets go jump after work and its just you and your good friends in the plane. I've driven 10 hours to a DZ that was'nt sure if they were going to have enoguh people to jump or not. Guess what... its not about the jumping, its the people that made the drive worth it for me. Tandems are the mainstay of a DZ. The DZ will do what ever is needed to keep them happy. If that means screwing over a fun jumper every once and a while... they don't mind one bit. To 95% of the DZ's out there fun jumpers are break even in the money. Tandems and students pay the bills, not regular jumpers. Get this.. there are DZ's that are'nt open 7 days a week but have turbines too Not everyone needs to be jumping everyday. When I was at Perris at Memorial Day I stayed till Tuesday at noon and tried to get a jump in before I left. I ended up sitting around (with 3 other DZ.commers) waiting on enough people to show up to go. There was a visiting team from the Air Force there and thats the only reason the plane even got started before 12 that day. Even Perris some times only flies 2 or 3 loads in a day. Scott, there are only 3 or 4 DZ's in the US like Perris... they are the exception, not the norm. If you are the type of jumper that wants to do 8 jumps between noon and 6 and then go home you'll be out of luck every where else. I learned long ago that any altitude is good altitude no matter how I get it. You probally were not jumping at 9/11/2001... DZ's were shut down and there were no ideas when we could jump again. The FAA has the ability to shut jumping down at any time so just be happy that you can jump.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 15 #109 October 23, 2003 Guess what? If I booked students and they show up early I'll send the plane as soon as they are ready at my DZ. If the student cancels I am not about to call everyone that might show up and tell them there are no students. Common thing at my DZ is for 15 people to call on days that are slow and ask if we are flying... if they would all just show up the plane would fly with out any students. Did you call on your drive to confirm that the students were still showing up? If not then thats a thing to keep in mind for the next time.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VanillaSkyGirl 6 #111 October 23, 2003 LOLOLOLOL!!! I almost you! Hey, I will see you this weekend at Elsinore, Scott! (I will probably be doing RW in my 2-way camp.) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
scottjaco 0 #112 October 23, 2003 I'll definatly keep that in mind! As far as "up jumpers" being of little value to small dropzones? They fill in all the empty slots on the student loads, so there is a little extra money there. Also somthing that DZ owners should keep in mind is consistancy. Most people who do tandems only do it once, Most AFF students never make it to level 7! I paid for all those AFF jumps in the begining, now that I'm a licensed skydiver I'm not considered profitable? If I do 5 jumps a day, thats $100 bucks! Its about consistancy. I see Tandems and AFF jumps as "quick cash" for DZ owners. The "up jumpers" are the bread and butter that keep the place going, they are there every weekend. If you do the math....over time those $20 dollar jump tickets add up. Not to mention all the money made on gear purchases and rigging services. Common! we can't be that much of a burden! scott Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skybytch 259 #113 October 23, 2003 QuoteI think I know who you are talking about! Read this. Pay special attention to the part about No Personal Attacks. Then go back and delete that post. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stacy 0 #114 October 23, 2003 I think some one just opened up a big ole can of ole fashioned whoopass! __ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 15 #115 October 23, 2003 Typical cost incured by a DZ (I was looking at doing a DZ.com boogie and renting a plane for it) is between $12 and $16 per jumper. Using a 182 the cost to rent it was $12 per jumper plus fuel costs. A larger plane costs more. the profit made off of each jump ticket has to cover things like fuel, organizer slots if given away by the DZ and lots of other things. Look around a DZ and look at all the things that just the experienced jumpers use and none of the tandems use. Creepers, creeper pads, packing hangers, things like that. It takes about 40-60 times jumping for a DZO to make the same profit off of you that they can make off of a single student. >The "up jumpers" are the bread and butter that keep the place going, they are there every weekend. If you do the math....over time those $20 dollar jump tickets add up. Profit made off a person to get off AFF is a few hundred. How many jumps at only a buck or two per person have to be made to make the same profit? DZ's bill payers are students.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
scottjaco 0 #116 October 23, 2003 DZ's bill payers are students. *** Thats fine with me......as long as they keep those jump ticket prices down! Next time I see a Tandem or an AFF in the plane.... I'll be sure to thank them for my skydive!!! scott Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jimbo 0 #117 October 23, 2003 QuoteNext time I see a Tandem or an AFF in the plane.... I'll be sure to thank them for my skydive!!! Yeah, it's good to remind them that their insanely expensive skydive is subsidizing your very inexpensive skydive. I do that every chance I get. - Jim"Like" - The modern day comma Good bye, my friends. You are missed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hooknswoop 19 #118 October 23, 2003 OK guys, knock it off. Derek Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
whocares 0 #119 October 23, 2003 Leaving the sport Quote | Reply -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- A recent post made me wonder: why do people leave the sport? Often, when looking at used gear in the classifieds, it will mention that the seller is leaving the sport. Why do people stop skydiving? Injuries, age, money? These are all factors...just curious to hear reasons you've heard... Time to take over the world. YEEEEEEEE!!! *** I sold all my gear and have not jumped but once in the last year. Way to many people close to me getting killed. Time for a break. Have i quit i dont think so just to to re evaluate my life at the present time. Wife 4 little kids..makes ya think... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
schattenjaeger 0 #120 October 23, 2003 and here I've got another question, there's like what? 30-40 skydiving fatalities every year? and that's spread over like the world(or is that just the US?)and spread over the course of a whole year, so I mean, it seems to me the odds of knowing anyone who's died, much less several, seems kinda quite low. Not trying to be disrespectful, but I'm curious Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ianmdrennan 2 #121 October 23, 2003 It's a relatively small community and you get to meet a lot of people. While a lot of us never actually see someone go in. The ripples are often felt by those who simply made a dive or 2 with them. Blue skies IanPerformance Designs Factory Team Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 15 #122 October 23, 2003 I've directly known 1 person that has died due to jumping. I've known through various other things 3 or 4 others in the last 3 years. The 35-40 a year are in the US only. Worldwide the numbers are closer to 65-75 a year. In a community where as I walked around WFFC I was rarely out of sight of at least 2 people I knew well enough to sit and know something about them, an impact like that can be felt rapidly.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
whocares 0 #123 October 23, 2003 and here I've got another question, there's like what? 30-40 skydiving fatalities every year? and that's spread over like the world(or is that just the US?)and spread over the course of a whole year, so I mean, it seems to me the odds of knowing anyone who's died, much less several, seems kinda quite low. Not trying to be disrespectful, but I'm curious *** 3 friends in 2 years. One of the people was my mentor. After he died i called it quits for now. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ianmdrennan 2 #124 October 23, 2003 Quote friends in 2 years. One of the people was my mentor. After he died i called it quits for now. I'm sorry to hear that. I hope you don't take offense to this but I do wonder though, don't you feel as though you're diminishing what they died for/doing by quitting because of their deaths? Blue skies IanPerformance Designs Factory Team Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
whocares 0 #125 October 23, 2003 I'm sorry to hear that. I hope you don't take offense to this but I do wonder though, don't you feel as though you're diminishing what they died for/doing by quitting because of their deaths? *** Not at all. They are dead I am not. When I got into the sport April of 2000, I did 200 plus jumps in 6 months. I love everything about the sport. I just looked at my life, where it is now, with a good business, 4 kids under the age of 9 years old and made a choice for now to back off. If I was single I would still be jumping, truth be told I don’t have the time I did a few years ago, but when I have lost 3 friendsand knew another 4 that died in 3 years it was a decision I made. I miss everything about it but right now my family comes first, I also lost my best friend of 25 years Last January in a snow mobile accident so I guess I am being selfish to myself and for once in my life putting my family first. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
