rayray8800 0 #1 January 7, 2012 Hi, I'm in Virginia, and I've found several skydiving schools online. When I found out about dropzone, I noticed that several of these schools had fatalities within the past five years. Is this a signal that these are bad schools? Or, is there no correlation between fatalities and the quality of the school? Do instructors who've led students to their death stay with these schools, or are they banned from the profession? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,381 #2 January 7, 2012 >I noticed that several of these schools had fatalities within the past five >years. Is this a signal that these are bad schools? Usually it just means that they make more jumps a year so the law of averages catches up to them. >Do instructors who've led students to their death stay with these schools, >or are they banned from the profession? I know of only one person who has been "banned from the sport" due to unsafe practices. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tuna-Salad 0 #3 January 7, 2012 I'll bite.... The sport of skydiving does not care who you are, how much money you make, what your social stature is or any of that... incidents happen. It can happen on your first jump, or never happen at all... If you want to pursue skydiving recognize the dangers and that people DO in fact die regardless of jump numbers or experience. A majority of fatalities are from experienced jumpers and should not reflect on the particular dropzone.Millions of my potential children died on your daughters' face last night. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skybill 18 #4 January 7, 2012 QuoteHi, I'm in Virginia, and I've found several skydiving schools online. When I found out about dropzone, I noticed that several of these schools had fatalities within the past five years. Is this a signal that these are bad schools? Or, is there no correlation between fatalities and the quality of the school? Do instructors who've led students to their death stay with these schools, or are they banned from the profession? Hi RahRah Sis-boom-bah!! As my buddy Mike "Sparky" Owens would say,"You are not now nor will you ever be "Good Enough" to "Not DIE" in this Sport!!!!!" Got that?? 'Ya need to hook up with "Pecos Parachute School" see Truman for the FJC!! Endorsed by Gardner Barnes and Philip Hicks Esq. "Oh for the simple daze of the 'Gulch!!'"SCR-2034, SCS-680 III%, Deli-out Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pchapman 261 #5 January 7, 2012 You also have to distinguish between fatalities of students, and of experienced jumpers -- the latter being less under the control of the school and more responsible for their own actions. Since fatalities are relatively rare, for medium to small schools the outcome can appear totally random -- a dropzone might have no student fatalities for 30 years, or one that just happened to be in the last 5 years. While schools vary in the age of equipment, the level of facilities, and the experience of instructors, it is pretty rare to have a really bad school. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tmarine253 0 #6 January 7, 2012 What dropzone in Virginia?....I was stationed up there for the last six months and had the opportunity to jump at a few of them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 3 #7 January 7, 2012 It does not matter one wit who you are or what school you're jumping at, there is always a risk of dying on your very first jump, and the second, and the third, ad infinitum. No instructor that I can recall has ever "led students to their death." The fact is, it's a sport that carries a certain risk with it. Get used to it or don't jump.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stayhigh 2 #8 January 7, 2012 Students rarely die or get severly injured, students are way more durable than avg sport jumpers. Most dangerous stage in skydiving are when you have 200 to 700 jumps, imo. That's when their head get so big that they can't even put on their helmets. Students almost never have full on bounce. How ever no instructor can help when students bury the toggle at 50 feet or student never cuts away on malfuntion or have super low cut away. No instructor will lead their students to their death. The dead person just brought it upon themselves, after making consious decision.Bernie Sanders for President 2016 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 0 #9 January 7, 2012 What you refer to as "skydiving schools" are actually drop zones where people of all experience levels jump, and which also train students. I'll bet the vast majority of the VA-area fatalities you found in your research over the past few years were licensed skydivers, not students in training. I'm not going to research it out now, but off the top of my head the only student fatality I can recall in the VA area over the past couple of years was an AFF student who was accidentally collided-with by a licensed skydiver, who was not otherwise involved in the student's jump, while under canopy at a low altitude. That incident really had little or nothing to do with the fact that the deceased was making a training jump at the time. Also, you need to understand that if you come into a forum like this and use a loaded, highly-inflammatory term like "instructors who've led students to their death", you can expect to antagonize people in here. Maybe you should re-think your approach. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rmarshall234 13 #10 January 7, 2012 Good student instruction will provide a solid foundation of knowledge, basic skill, and practices and procedures which serve to make you "safer" over the long haul. With the rare exception, student jumps are pretty tightly regimented and controlled so the safety record is good. It is what you do with those influential days down the road that matters the most. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #11 January 7, 2012 QuoteI noticed that several of these schools had fatalities within the past five years. Is this a signal that these are bad schools? No. QuoteOr, is there no correlation between fatalities and the quality of the school? Correct. QuoteDo instructors who've led students to their death stay with these schools, or are they banned from the profession? Instructors do not lead students to their death. If a student dies, it's most often their own fault, and no reason for the instructor to quit the school, or the profession. Compare it to teenage driving fatalities. If a teenager dies in a traffic accident, is it the fault of their driver's education instructor? Should the instructor quit his job because one of his students died? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
loch1957 0 #12 January 8, 2012 You got a bunch of answers from highly experienced jumpers, now you can have mine,,,5 jumps. I had a very unsettling landing on my first jump. I honestly considered once was enough, damn instructor should told me this or that. After couple weeks of being a wimp i figured out he told me everything, it was I who didn't implement what I was told. When I found my new DZ home I asked to retake the ground class, not because first instructor was bad but I wanted it. Simple fact is, if you get hurt its likely your fault not the instructor. If you don't understand something then ask, no ones going to laugh. I would bet instructor have a lot more respect if you said i need bit more explanation than just faking it. Matt Searby is my instructor, one most important things he said was if you expect bad stuff to happen, it likely will. This is supposed to be fun, go learn jump smile then jump again.Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. Life is either a daring adventure, or nothing.” Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #13 January 8, 2012 Quote...I would bet instructor have a lot more respect if you said i need bit more explanation than just faking it.... This is one of the most profound statements from a young jumper that I have seen in a long, long while. Loch..you are absolutely correct. For me, it's an indication that one is mature enough to realize the implications of what they are doing and is actually willing to learn...and that makes an instructor happy, believe me. I would be honored to have had you as a student.My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Namowal 0 #14 January 8, 2012 Quote If you don't understand something then ask... I'm a fellow noob, but I agree with you. I'm shy by default. When I don't understand something, I'm reluctant to ask for more info for fear of "looking stupid" or "bothering the instructor." Lucky for me, this thought also kicks in "You're jumping out of a !@$!***! plane! You'd better understand [insert skill, concept or detail here!]" Then I ask for clarification.My blog with the skydiving duck cartoons. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Airman1270 0 #15 January 8, 2012 ...Simple fact is, if you get hurt its likely your fault not the instructor... _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ In the months following my first-jump broken ankle in 1982 I was gimping around on crutches. When I'd tell people what happened their response frequently included something like "You should sue the place." Even after I explained that I messed up & it wasn't anybody else's fault they still tried to figure out a way to blame the instructor, the gear manufacturer, etc. I realized that these are the people who manage to make it onto juries. Sigh. Cheers, Jon S. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Trae 1 #16 January 8, 2012 in nreply to "....one most important things he said was if you expect bad stuff to happen, it likely will. This is supposed to be fun, go learn jump smile then jump again. " .............................................. If you don't expect it when it happens you get surprised...frightened even ....somtimes downright terrified...I've seen people totally frozen in fear (CRW wrap). They weren't expecting or ready for the bad stuff. Good preparation deals with the expected problems leaving you more able to enjoy yourself, knowing you can deal with problems if /when they arise. You don't wanna go stickin' your head in the sand in this sport.Bad stuff happens ...expect it ..be ready for it if it happens near you. It can still be fun if you expect bad things to happen That's the true reality of our sport , bad things can and DO happen. They don't happen BECAUSE you expect them. They don't happen all the time but can happen just about ANY time. If they do, you want to be ready for it, not blissfully skydiving away until..........but then ignorance can be blissful, I think the most important thing he told you was .. Have fun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
loch1957 0 #17 January 9, 2012 I paraphrased that, wasn't quite way he said it. He was trying to tell me to be positive. He knew about my crash and he knew I was nervous as hell. I was almost to point that I thought ok somethings bad is going to happen, but of course it didn't. But it might next time,, but I will be ready,,,,,,,,,,,scared as hell but ill do what i was trained to do. thanks popsjumperAvoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. Life is either a daring adventure, or nothing.” Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
