0
veritas1

Dubai 500 Shady Dealings

Recommended Posts

As everyone knows who signed up for the 250 Way in Dubai, days after the event was "officially" canceled, the organizers were continuing to deposit the checks that were sent in by the participants.
They didn't have an alternate plan that they were going to use, so why didn't they return the checks?
Obviously this was not very honest of them.
Considering the amount of money that they make on these events, rumored to be well over $40,000.00 in profit, you can't help but wonder what has taken over the minds of some of the most respected skydivers in our sport.
And for how long had the organizers known that the Emirate canceled on their commitment before notifying the participants?
With the latest round of problems in the Gulf, is it possible that the 500 Way has been called off, but the organizers are keeping mum about that in order to keep people attracted to their big way "500 Way qualifying" events?
People are talking about these very things, but no one wants to speak out and then find themselves cut from future events.
What is going on?
What is the official statement from Dubai on the 500 Way?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
hhhhhhhaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahaaaaaaaaaaaa
haaaaaaaaaaaaaaahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
ohhhhh
that is just tooo funny....bj wouldn't do that would he????
bwaaaaaaaaaaaa haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa haaaaaaaaaa
just sayin'
I ain't angry...
I really miss Mr. Nelson a lot more now that you bring this up..but I always have!!!
tom #90 #54 #08 and now #5 with a Bronze :-)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Funny, I haven't heard "people talking about these very things." P3 is in business to make money, so who's to say that a "rumored" profit is too much. If you think the cost of the event is too much, then don't apply/go. I don't know the cost of BJ's event in Qatar, but I'm sure people are making money.

I don't see an ulterior motive for depositing checks after the event was cancelled. If you wonder why that was done, I'd suggest you contact Jen. I sent in my check well before it was cancelled, so I no nothing about that.
There are battered women? I've been eating 'em plain all of these years...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

I don't see an ulterior motive for depositing checks after the event was cancelled. If you wonder why that was done, I'd suggest you contact Jen.



My apologies if I'm being obtuse, but I'd like to know the answer to Why.
In fairness, I'll leave it as simply an open question, without commentary, until I hear more.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

I don't see an ulterior motive for depositing checks after the event was cancelled.



I don't see a motive FOR depositing cheques in such a situation at all. Surely they should be returned or torn up.

Any loss due to the cancellation should be borne by the organisers. Thats the risk you take if you are prepared to take profits from the event.
My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
>Any loss due to the cancellation should be borne by the organisers.

That's generally not true; any bigway participant knows that airline tickets, arranged time off, jumpsuits purchased etc are obtained at-risk. People who cannot risk such things should not agree to do bigway records, since anything from from weather and mechanical failure to political revolution can get in the way of a record and cause its cancellation.

(It should be noted that this is one very rare time that they ARE getting their plane tickets refunded, which is pretty cool.)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

>Any loss due to the cancellation should be borne by the organisers.

That's generally not true; any bigway participant knows that airline tickets, arranged time off, jumpsuits purchased etc are obtained at-risk. People who cannot risk such things should not agree to do bigway records, since anything from from weather and mechanical failure to political revolution can get in the way of a record and cause its cancellation.

(It should be noted that this is one very rare time that they ARE getting their plane tickets refunded, which is pretty cool.)



I meant any costs incurred in organising the event itself. The jumpers take the risk of losing things like airline and accomodation deposits when they decide to participate.

One the event is actually about to start, then everyone loses if it is cancelled at the last minute....
My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I disagree. It's a whole lot better, if there is a loss, that it's shared by everyone instead of the organizers. Other wise after one or two events gone bad and no organizer could afford to keep putting together events.

Now, if someone gets a rep for events being canceled then we have another issue.

I can tell you this, with no more then I've cleared doing events and the state of the economy and my current financial position, if I had one go really bad and the jumpers didn't step up to help out I couldn't do another one. It's easier for many to give up $20 then one to loose thousands.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

As everyone knows who signed up for the 250 Way in Dubai, days after the event was "officially" canceled, the organizers were continuing to deposit the checks that were sent in by the participants.
They didn't have an alternate plan that they were going to use, so why didn't they return the checks?
Obviously this was not very honest of them.
Considering the amount of money that they make on these events, rumored to be well over $40,000.00 in profit, you can't help but wonder what has taken over the minds of some of the most respected skydivers in our sport.
And for how long had the organizers known that the Emirate canceled on their commitment before notifying the participants?
With the latest round of problems in the Gulf, is it possible that the 500 Way has been called off, but the organizers are keeping mum about that in order to keep people attracted to their big way "500 Way qualifying" events?
People are talking about these very things, but no one wants to speak out and then find themselves cut from future events.
What is going on?
What is the official statement from Dubai on the 500 Way?



I'm calling absolute BS on you. I guess a guy creating a new username feels free to skew the facts and slander people.

1. Honesty - The P3 group sent out refunds at people’s request. I got mine long ago. Many people chose to have the funds applied to future P3 events. So what if they deposited checks? There is nothing wrong with that. EVERYONE was asked what they wanted done with their funds on account and I don’t know anyone that didn’t have their request fulfilled.

2. Future Events – Yes P3 and BJ are both having a number of events to keep people current on big way skills. So what? Attend if you want, don’t attend if you don’t want.

3. Big Way Cancellations - Let’s see Thailand 2010/2011 got canceled, Dubai 253 2012 and Qatar 2012 all got canceled. The P3, 253 way was the only event that people received refunds for their plane tickets.

I personally feel I’ve been treated quite fairly by the organizers about the Dubai 253. I don’t see your complaints have ANY validity.
"We've been looking for the enemy for some time now. We've finally found him. We're surrounded. That simplifies things." CP

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

I disagree. It's a whole lot better, if there is a loss, that it's shared by everyone instead of the organizers.



Edited to remove political discussions. Avoid political arguments here please.

When you have a bad event, you want the participants to help bail you out.... But when you have an AWESOME event where you might rake in tons of money... Do you give refunds?
"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

Quote

I disagree. It's a whole lot better, if there is a loss, that it's shared by everyone instead of the organizers.



Edited to remove political discussions. Avoid political arguments here please.

When you have a bad event, you want the participants to help bail you out.... But when you have an AWESOME event where you might rake in tons of money... Do you give refunds?[/reply)
__________________________________________________
I agree if " P3 is in business to make money," then they also have to assume the risks involved

But I think an event like this is very different from the boogies you sponsor Spence.
You can't be drunk all day if you don't start early!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just to reply to the original post, if I was in charge of an event like this I would deposit the checks and then issue refunds if the participants wanted them.

I would not tear up or send back checks. That does not create as good of a paper record. Deposits and refunds are very, very clear entries in the ledger.
"What if there were no hypothetical questions?"

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

Quote

I disagree. It's a whole lot better, if there is a loss, that it's shared by everyone instead of the organizers.



Edited to remove political discussions. Avoid political arguments here please.

When you have a bad event, you want the participants to help bail you out.... But when you have an AWESOME event where you might rake in tons of money... Do you give refunds?




I'll let you know the first time I make tons of money.:D

But to be serious, when I have an event that is going well I tend to spend money on beer, give away jump tickets, slip a few bucks to people who are helping out. I don't think I should have to justify making a few bucks off of what I do.

As far as people helping out if we ever have a bad year, They don't have to, only if they want to have another one.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
An important note that everyone forgot to consider is that it can take several days for an international cheque to clear -- they may have very well been depositing cheques until they got bad news from the authorities at UAE. And the cheques deposited before, were still clearing thereafter.

It's important to point out there's two areas of refunding: The refunding of the Dubai fees, and the refunding of airfares. (I think the latter is possible because both Emirates Airlines and Skydive Dubai, both have good relationship with the Dubai government, and a lot of the airfares were booked via Emirates).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

Quote

I disagree. It's a whole lot better, if there is a loss, that it's shared by everyone instead of the organizers.



Edited to remove political discussions. Avoid political arguments here please.

When you have a bad event, you want the participants to help bail you out.... But when you have an AWESOME event where you might rake in tons of money... Do you give refunds?




When your employer has a bad year do you give back some of your salary?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

When your employer has a bad year do you give back some of your salary?



When my employer has a bad year HE takes a reduction in salary. And they HAVE taken salary from me.

YOU run an event, YOU are the employer. And yes, when my employer has a great year they give me a bonus.

Now, answer the question... When YOU run YOUR boogie and have a great year, do YOU give back some of the participants money?

Cause, you seem to think that everyone should bail out a free enterprise when they screw up. And that is just not how a free market works.
"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

But to be serious, when I have an event that is going well I tend to spend money on beer, give away jump tickets, slip a few bucks to people who are helping out. I don't think I should have to justify making a few bucks off of what I do.

As far as people helping out if we ever have a bad year, They don't have to, only if they want to have another one.



So we have established that a smart person, when the event is running well, tries to take care of people and that it is not the RESPONSIBILITY of the CUSTOMERS to support a poorly run event.

That is free enterprise in action.

Now, from what I have been told, the Dubai 500 way folks did offer refunds. So there is no point in the OPs rant.

Edit: Damn you auto correct!
"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

Now, from what I have been told, the Dubai 500 way folks did offer refunds. So their is no point in the OPs rant.



I agree and I finally understood something you said. ;)
"We've been looking for the enemy for some time now. We've finally found him. We're surrounded. That simplifies things." CP

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote


Now, from what I have been told, the Dubai 500 way folks did offer refunds.

.

Do you know whether the "refunds" are free of any "fees"?

Very early on when paid organizing first came into being there was some discussion of the transparency of the itemized bills. Seems that there were a number of separate "fees" listed as only that, "fee". Imagine getting a bill for dives, coaching, fee, party, entry fee, aircraft ferry expense, fee, etc. It got some folks' panties in a wad. The joke ended up being called a "fee fee".

"Hey! We're not making enough here. Let's add another fee."

jon

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
>Very early on when paid organizing first came into being there was some
>discussion of the transparency of the itemized bills. Seems that there were
>a number of separate "fees" listed as only that, "fee". Imagine getting a
>bill for dives, coaching, fee, party, entry fee, aircraft ferry expense fee . . .

Yeah, that's how many of these events work:

If they cancel the event early you get all your money back.

If they cancel the event after they ordered the T-shirts you get most of your money back. And a T-shirt.

If they cancel the event after the aircraft are on their way, you get most of your money back, minus the T-shirt and ferry fees - because they already paid for those things.

Of course it's usually wrapped up into one big bill, you only see the "fees" when they break it down after the cancellation.

I've seen this happen pretty often. I'll put the money up up-front to pay for an event, and if it gets cancelled I'll get anywhere from some to all the money back.

(On the plus side, often when I cancel I still get most of the money back.)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

Quote

But to be serious, when I have an event that is going well I tend to spend money on beer, give away jump tickets, slip a few bucks to people who are helping out. I don't think I should have to justify making a few bucks off of what I do.

As far as people helping out if we ever have a bad year, They don't have to, only if they want to have another one.



So we have established that a smart person, when the event is running well, tries to take care of people and that it is not the RESPONSIBILITY of the CUSTOMERS to support a poorly run event.

That is free enterprise in action.

Now, from what I have been told, the Dubai 500 way folks did offer refunds. So there is no point in the OPs rant.

Edit: Damn you auto correct!




I said nothing about a poorly run event. By going bad, I meant the weather crapped on us or something like that. Like I said, it would depend if they wanted me to be able to do another one. I couldn't risk planning an event if I was still paying for the last one.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

I'll let you know the first time I make tons of money.:D


I call BS. I saw you eating a steak one night at Fitz.


Quote

I don't think I should have to justify making a few bucks off of what I do.


Nope, not at all. Standard answer: NUNYA.


Quote

As far as people helping out if we ever have a bad year, They don't have to, only if they want to have another one.



Ummmm....I don't think that came out quite right.
:D:D:P
My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account. It's free!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
0