AndyMan 7 #26 January 10, 2012 QuoteYou and Adam, please don't jump with me. Ever. Thanks. I think you misunderstand. The FAA requires AAD's for students, and they are required to be maintained to manufacturer standards. The point was that a DZ, and instructor, and rigger would all be named in a suit if a fatal student jump was done without a properly maintained AAD. I'm not a lawyer, but that just seems obvious. And of course, nobody's suggesting that's what happened here. _Am__ You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
matthewcline 0 #27 January 10, 2012 QuoteQuoteYou and Adam, please don't jump with me. Ever. Thanks. I think you misunderstand. The FAA requires AAD's for students (Tandems Only), and they are required to be maintained to manufacturer standards. The point was that a DZ, and instructor, and rigger would all be named in a suit if a fatal student jump was done without a properly maintained AAD. I'm not a lawyer, but that just seems obvious. And of course, nobody's suggesting that's what happened here. _Am MattAn Instructors first concern is student safety. So, start being safe, first!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,676 #28 January 10, 2012 >So if the AAD was not "airwothy" then this would be neglagence. AAD's are not "airworthy." They are not TSOed pieces of equipment. They are not subject to any FAA testing. They are merely components - and they can fail like any other. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
angle228 0 #29 January 10, 2012 Wait... im lost... i was supporting keeping your AAD maintained.... what exactly is wrong with that again?I am fucking your mom right now Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Reginald 0 #30 January 10, 2012 This the "heavy set" guy that came down from the North West to get his license, correct?"We've been looking for the enemy for some time now. We've finally found him. We're surrounded. That simplifies things." CP Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andrewwhyte 1 #31 January 10, 2012 QuoteI read through the original incident thread and couldn't find much on the cause of his death. Did his AAD fail? Double Mal? If his AAD was not on or failed or was out of maintenance, I would argue there is some negligence on the part of his instructors and the DZ. If I was this guys attorney I would argue that the DZ has a duty to ensure that their student equipment is safe. If the equipment was not the problem, then I would think the waiver would hold up. I see from your profile you are an attorney. Do you understand the difference between negligence and gross negligence? Do you get the part about the jumper needing to open the parachute? Do you get the part about FAA regs not applying in this situation? If you ever see my name on the manifest please come see me immediately so I can ensure I am not on the same plane as you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
angle228 0 #32 January 10, 2012 Obviously I am not understanding the reg correctly. Follow up question then for my benifit. Would it be legal to have on out of date cypress in your container? (not that i want one just wondering)I am fucking your mom right now Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,676 #33 January 10, 2012 >Would it be legal to have on out of date cypress in your container? It is legal to have one in your container. It would not be legal for a rigger to repack that reserve (and sign it off) if the AAD was out of date. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
angle228 0 #34 January 10, 2012 So... there is not way to get an out of date cypress in your container legaly?I am fucking your mom right now Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
obelixtim 125 #35 January 10, 2012 QuoteObviously I am not understanding the reg correctly. Follow up question then for my benifit. Would it be legal to have on out of date cypress in your container? (not that i want one just wondering) You can have a dead chicken in your rig quite legally if you are so inclined..... Most times if one has an out of service AAD you would either not switch it on, or take it off your rig completely. AAD sevicing usually coincides with the reserve repack cycle, so really the "out of date AAD " scenario is a non issue. You are barking up the wrong tree here mate. Skydivers and DZO's are not stupid....AAD's historically have been treated with suspicion, even if they have been correctly serviced.....You risk not only yourself but every other jumper on the load if you jump an unserviceable AAD....My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jacketsdb23 49 #36 January 10, 2012 The point is a perfectly maintained AAD's have and can fail. If your first reaction is to sue someone when that happens...please stop jumping. This is not what happened in this case, but someone here suggested suing the instructor if an AAD failed. In my opinion, anyone with this line of thinking doesn't belong in the sport.Losers make excuses, Winners make it happen God is Good Beer is Great Swoopers are crazy. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theonlyski 3 #37 January 10, 2012 QuoteFAA regs state that you have to keep AAD's maintained according to manufacturer requirements (right?) So if the AAD was not "airwothy" then this would be neglagence. Yes its a backup device but it the US it must be maintained if its going to be on the reserve system QuoteWait... im lost... i was supporting keeping your AAD maintained.... what exactly is wrong with that again? You made it sound like the AAD wasn't properly maintained. Do you know something we don't? QuoteSo... there is not way to get an out of date CYPRES in your container legaly? Nope, as a FAA certificated rigger, I cannot legally pack and certify an out of date AAD because it is not maintained according to the mfgr's instructions."I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890 I'm an asshole, and I approve this message Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
funfall 0 #38 January 10, 2012 Quote*** I don't know how these things make it to trial... ...What part of this is negligence... For the answer to that, read the entire original incident thread, now in the context of a lawsuit. See how many times blame was placed, and words like "fault" or "negligent" are used. I hesitated to mention it, but there is already a link to that thread above, and there's no doubt that the plaintiff's attorney has already studied it. It's a good reminder to be careful about words used when stating opinions in the incidents forum. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
obelixtim 125 #39 January 11, 2012 QuoteFor the answer to that, read the entire original incident thread, now in the context of a lawsuit. See how many times blame was placed, and words like "fault" or "negligent" are used. I hesitated to mention it, but there is already a link to that thread above, and there's no doubt that the plaintiff's attorney has already studied it. It's a good reminder to be careful about words used when stating opinions in the incidents forum. Opinions are not facts. Everybody has one, and they vary from the "almost correct", to the insane.My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 718 #40 January 11, 2012 and getting anything posted on this looney bin used in a court of law for legal proceedings? good luck. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stratostar 5 #41 January 11, 2012 Quote and getting anything posted on this looney bin used in a court of law for legal proceedings? In the past dz.com posts have been used in court. With that said, when I posted this link last night, I used a title for the post, however after about 3 minutes, I decided to edit it to the current title..... Why? For one thing I wanted to help the dz by keeping the Google ranking low via the keywords I used. I also choose my words very carefully when posting in some topics, such as this one, for that same reason as well as because we all know some scumbag dirt ball lawyer's flunky will be searching for any little bullshit they can find to drag into court. I would always advise other posters to think carefully about how and what they say, here, on facebook, posting videos on utube, and other places where ones words and video can be used by those forces who seek to harm our industry. For an example of what I mean, Google Kimberly Gibbs Citizens for Quiet Skies..... Page one #7 took less then a week to land there. Like I said, I word my posts very carefully for many reasons.you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
obelixtim 125 #42 January 11, 2012 Quote Quote and getting anything posted on this looney bin used in a court of law for legal proceedings? In the past dz.com posts have been used in court. With that said, when I posted this link last night, I used a title for the post, however after about 3 minutes, I decided to edit it to the current title..... Why? For one thing I wanted to help the dz by keeping the Google ranking low via the keywords I used. I also choose my words very carefully when posting in some topics, such as this one, for that same reason as well as because we all know some scumbag dirt ball lawyer's flunky will be searching for any little bullshit they can find to drag into court. I would always advise other posters to think carefully about how and what they say, here, on facebook, posting videos on utube, and other places where ones words and video can be used by those forces who seek to harm our industry. For an example of what I mean, Google Kimberly Gibbs Citizens for Quiet Skies..... Page one #7 took less then a week to land there. Like I said, I word my posts very carefully for many reasons. Good words of advice, but sadly I think in todays world, the horse has pretty much bolted when it comes to information on the internet. Privacy these days, is almost a pipe dream....My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stratostar 5 #43 January 11, 2012 QuotePrivacy these days, is almost a pipe dream.... Who said anything about privacy. It's all about choosing your words wisely for an internet searching asshole, to be found or be ranked on page 25. Did you Google Ms. Gibbs? In that case I wanted posts found on page one for her and her buddies to see or anyone else when researching her bullshit. So I choose to not use the dropzone's name in this thread, so when people in that area are searching for a place to go skydive this thread or my post are not on page one in regards to that operation that might make it look bad to unknowing public.... that was the point, along with if your an instructor or staff on a dz that is involved in pending legal action, so your posts and video don't come back to bite you or your friends in the ass, kind of like posting IMC violation videos when a door flies off an airplane at a well known dz and AC.you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
crotalus01 0 #44 January 11, 2012 LOL Stratostar....post #7 is conveniently missing from her page. Amazingly every post on her page seems to support her position! We have an editor at the local newsrag that does the same thing - she deletes any post or message disagreeing with her position since the website is her personal one and not maintained by the newspaper. Edit to add I really had to restrain myself from registering and leaving MY opinion of people who move into houses in the flight path of the local airport and then bitch about the noise.... As for me and my house, we will serve the LORD... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stratostar 5 #45 January 11, 2012 She can't delete a Goggle ranking, if you Goggle the keywords I'm talking about in post 41, the dz.com post ranks on page one, #7 slotyou can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Remster 26 #46 January 11, 2012 QuoteLOL Stratostar....post #7 is conveniently missing from her page. Amazingly every post on her page seems to support her position! We have an editor at the local newsrag that does the same thing - she deletes any post or message disagreeing with her position since the website is her personal one and not maintained by the newspaper... Stratostar refers to the #7 in the google hits, not her page.Remster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
deltron80 0 #47 January 11, 2012 The student completely failed at all 3 pull priorities. He was grossly negligent in saving his own life. The DZ should counter sue the party who brought this lawsuit as libel. The student simply was unable to follow the most basic skydiving rule: 1. Pull priorities: a. Jumpers must deploy at the planned altitude, regardless of stability. b. Priorities are in the following order of importance (top down): (1) Pull. (2) Pull at the correct altitude. (3) Pull while stable. http://www.uspa.org/tabid/239/Default.aspx Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #48 January 11, 2012 http://www.khou.com/news/local/Brazoria-County-Family-of-man-killed-while-skydiving-settles-suit-with-Skydive-Spaceland-137055423.html QuoteBRAZORIA COUNTY, Texas – The family of a man who died while skydiving in Brazoria County has settled a civil case with Skydive Spaceland. Rex Williams, 59, died in 2008 when he failed to pull his parachute in time while skydiving with the company in Rosharon. Williams had five previous solo jumps. The details of the settlement were not released. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BlindBrick 0 #49 January 11, 2012 QuoteSo... there is not way to get an out of date cypress in your container legaly? Put one in, no. It is, however, possible for one to "time out" by reaching its expiration date while in your rig. Though techincally this isn't illegal because the AAD manuals don't mandate removal of an AAD when it expires, they only disallow you to install or repack a timed out unit. -Blind -Blind"If you end up in an alligator's jaws, naked, you probably did something to deserve it." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
angle228 0 #50 January 11, 2012 Thanks for answering my question.I am fucking your mom right now Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
