All healed up

[PiLFy 0]

If I had seventeen titanium wedges through my Tibia & Fibula. I would think long & hard before engaging in any high-risk activities w/o having them first removed. If another fracture occurs. You could have several bite-sized pieces of bone in unsupported flesh. Small pieces of bone & metal w/sharp edges, is the last thing you want right next to the nerves serving your lower leg. Not when you're still slamming into, & tumbling across the ground. The body doesn't stop the instant a fracture occurs. You could be left facing partial paralysis or an amputation.

I vote for having the hardware removed. It's no longer helping you, but could really hurt you. You can utilize the next three months doing training tandems. Finish getting yourself together, first. Then, you can return to solos when you're really ready.

[guineapiggie101 0]

I have to wait till jan to get a 2nd opinion about removing the hardware (gonna change insurances). The worry that I could get hurt and the metal break my bones into pieces, is on the back of my mind. Hence why, even when I do tandems, I tend to baby that leg.

If I get the metal removed, how much more down time will I need to heal up fom THAT?

[ghost47 18]

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If I get the metal removed, how much more down time will I need to heal up fom THAT?

Not being a doctor, I have no idea. However, being a skydiver, there is one thing I do know: the sky will still be there, however long it takes.

[PiLFy 0]

If you're changing insurance carriers @the end of the year. You need to finish this before then, not after. They could easily refuse to pay for it as a preexisting condition. The risk of your hardware causing a catastrophic injury needs to move to the front of your mind. It's a real risk.

New bone growth should fill the screw holes completely in about two months. You live in SoCal. You can jump year round. We read the incident forum to find what caused an injury, & prevent it. By your own admission, you've identified the cause in your case: panic. A part of your anxiety now is probably your sense, on some level, that your leg isn't really ready, yet. If I may? Use the next 2-3 months wisely. Get your leg back to 100%. Work on your skill set & panic issues. In short, come back when you're really ready, not just frustrated. The sky isn't going anywhere. Don't jeopardize the rest of your life for the sake of a few months.

[DSE 3]

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I have to wait till jan to get a 2nd opinion about removing the hardware (gonna change insurances). The worry that I could get hurt and the metal break my bones into pieces, is on the back of my mind. Hence why, even when I do tandems, I tend to baby that leg.

If I get the metal removed, how much more down time will I need to heal up fom THAT?

It'll take however long it's gonna take. Like the sky, the healing process won't bend to the force of your demand.
Perhaps 6 weeks, perhaps 6 months. Your doctor is the only one who can say, once the hardware is out.

You've already indicated you're "babying that leg." This is with a TI on your back, one who is significantly taller than you and managing the entire landing process for you. Tandems are a terrific means to enjoy the sky without putting yourself or others at greater risk. You have people wanting to jump with you/do RW with you as a tandem. This is as safe as skydiving gets.

Are you sure the new insurance company will support skydiving, the hardware, hardware removal, future injuries related to this particular injury? Have you checked on pre-existing conditions with them?

Mixing impatience, hyperactivity, and the sky are a potential recipe for big problems. Sangi, Ted Nelson, and several others are examples of this. Toss in a previous injury and significant trepidation, it's not a good environment for happy landings without some deep mental, physical, and emotional re-training.
Take your time. As hard as that is for you, take your time.

[guineapiggie101 0]

The insurance is employer-provided insurance thru my husband. Currently, we have a HMO plan, we are changing it over to a PPO plan (so I have more choice). I did my research and made sure the employer insurances covered skydiving injuries, even before I started jumping, and they do.

I will admit, I am very impatient. Seeing people plan out jumps, do formation jumps, etc. makes me sad that I can't join in with them.

Right now I want to practice landing patterns and flaring my landings while doing tandems. I need to get comfortable before I can jump again.

[FL_new_jumper 0]

PiLFy -

Do you have a medical degree?? Any experience with orthopedic surgery?? Have any idea what you are talking about??

While my skydiving experience is limited, my experience with titanium plates and screws inside my body is extensive.

guineapiggie101 -

There is NO reason for you to put yourself through ANY additional surgery if the hardware in your leg is not causing serious complications. Having been through this a few times (two plates and 16 screws myself) and being treated by EXPERTS in the field, including teams of orthopedic surgeons who are leaders in their profession and treat professional athletes, NOT ONE has ever told me there is any risk of extra injury if it occurs near the original surgery site. As a matter of fact, the standard procedure now is to leave hardware alone for the life of the patient unless it is causing some complication... even if the patient is going back to the same high risk activity that caused the injury in the first place.

But don't listen to me.. my point is.. don't listen to ANYBODY... except your doctors.. and your instructors!

[DSE 3]

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But don't listen to me.. my point is.. don't listen to ANYBODY... except your doctors.. and your instructors!

Re-injury to an area already containing metal is a very real issue. The bone is weak and metal is destructive.

"The rod may be left in place permanently, or may be removed if there is a chance that the bone may be broken again, such as in the case of a professional athlete. The situation can become complicated if the tibia is refractured, because the broken rod can be difficult to remove. For the high-level athlete, the rod is often removed once healing is complete. Blood vessels and nerves surrounding lower-leg fractures can possibly be damaged.... energy absorbing capacity was little affected by demineralisation, but was reduced to 50% by a single drill hole. " (emphasis mine)

http://web.jbjs.org.uk/cgi/content/abstract/73-B/2/283

From another study...
"
It is frequently advisable to undertake a subsequent procedure to remove the hardware after it has done its job. Removal of percutaneous pins, diastasis screws and external fixation devices is virtually universal. Removal of screws, plates and intramedullary rods is done frequently and does usually require local or general anaesthetic.

The reasons for removing hardware include discomfort from the metal objects under the skin and impingement when muscles or tendons rub on the metal pieces. Occasionally the fixation is holding the fracture apart and is removed to "dynamize" a fracture, allowing compression and healing at the fracture site. Some surgeons hold that all plates should be removed because the bone under the plate may be weakened by "stress shielding"."


Aside....one of her instructors also has "extensive experience" with plates, bolts, and screws. Much more than just two plates and 16 screws.

[FL_new_jumper 0]

DSE-

This is a skydiving forum, not a medical one... however...

First, the article you are quoting is 10 years old (from 1991).. second, it talks about the weakening of bones AFTER the removal of hardware.. third.. your own quote says.. "The reasons for removing hardware include discomfort from the metal objects under the skin and impingement when muscles or tendons rub on the metal pieces."

There is NO reason to remove plates / screws UNLESS they are causing pain, limited motion, infection, etc.

The fact is the hardware is STRONGER than the bone itself (duh).. so any injury to the area would most most likely occur above or below the original injury... as one doctor told me, "If you have any impact strong enough to break a titanium plate or screw, soft tissue injuries due to those fragments will be the least of your worries."

believe me, I have had these conversations with numerous EXPERTS .. ad nauseum..

I stick to to my original point.. don't listen to me or anyone else on the internet.. ask your doctor.. or several of them as I have.

[DSE 3]

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believe me, I have had these conversations with numerous EXPERTS .. ad nauseum..

As have I. 56 bones in 50 years.
But hey...leaving it all in worked great for the kid in "Kickass, the movie"...

[FL_new_jumper 0]

OK... (bowing)..

I'm not worthy...

[nigel99 143]

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Quote

believe me, I have had these conversations with numerous EXPERTS .. ad nauseum..

As have I. 56 bones in 50 years.
But hey...leaving it all in worked great for the kid in "Kickass, the movie"...

Holy smoke. Were most of those skydiving?

Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

[DSE 3]

Rodeo (several), motocross (several), one really bad one from climbing the side of a building, rollerblading, hit by cars twice on a motorcycle, hit a deer once on a motorcycle, and skydiving. Plus a couple broken bones doing stupid shit like once punching a wall in my youth.

skydiving got my pelvis, hip, L1-5, sacrum, coccyx. Still have metal in my left elbow (rodeo) right ankle (rodeo) collarbones (motocross), pelvis (skydiving) Pelvis so messed up, they put a zipper in for easy access.

[edit to add photo; someone PM'd me not believing the zipper. Note the broken screws...this happens frequently. Screws can never come out now. Some call this "tough." Others call it "stupid."

[PiLFy 0]

"Do you have a medical degree?? Any experience with orthopedic surgery?? Have any idea what you are talking about??"

Let's see: 15+yrs in varied forms of nursing, in-patient & private sector. Three years in the ORs/PACU of a large area hospital. One of my personal Orthopaedists is the staff Ortho for a national sports franchise. Aside from my clinical background, there's almost 30yrs on a bike. I still go on racetracks, but only w/karts, now. In short, "Yes," I have the degree, experience, & know what I'm talking about.

"The fact is the hardware is STRONGER than the bone itself (duh).."

This is an amusing quote. Do you really think a thin strip of titanium is stronger than a 2" diameter Tibia? Ever seen a Femur re-fractured w/a rod already in place? A strip or rod will bend. A rod will shatter a length of bone bad enough to require cadaver bone be used for the repair. That, instead of a nice clean break. The strip will have screws going through it. Those screws can split the bone. The screws are stronger than the surrounding bone. That's the problem. She has seventeen of them...

I've seen a lot of patients over the years who received horrific care in Florida. The State is not known for cutting edge health care. You might think you know what you're talking about. It doesn't take advanced training to envision what large titanium screws through the bone will do in a hard impact. I'm sure you mean well. You're mistaken in this.

[PiLFy 0]

"56 bones in 50 years."

God Damn... Evil Doug-nievel, in the house?!

They need to give you a new American Indian name after all of that.

[billvon 2,396]

>There is NO reason to remove plates / screws UNLESS they are causing
>pain, limited motion, infection, etc.

The trauma you can cause with the hardware in place, if you experience a second fracture in the same location, is pretty significant.

>The fact is the hardware is STRONGER than the bone itself (duh)

Not even close. The hardware does not replace the bone; it just holds it accurately in place while it heals (and often allows some loading, which also speeds recovery.)

However, this does not mean that hardware _has_ to come out.

[guineapiggie101 0]

Well, after a lot of thinking and other things, I have come to a decision that I am NOT coming back to doing solos again.

It is a painful decision and something I am not real happy about, but it is the best decision, esp since I struggle so much with anxiety. I don't want to be a danger to myself OR to others in the sky.

I am going to stick with doing tandems (and tandem formations with friends), since that is a safe way to be in the sky.

Thanks you all for putting up with all my crazy questions.

[riggerrob 558]

May I suggest hiking and cross-country running?

As soon as your doctor approves, take progressively longer walks, then walks on rough terrain, then jogging on gentle grassy paths, eventually leading to roaring up and down steep, rough hillsides. The process will require a year - or more of hard work - but you will end up with stronger legs and less fear of hard landings.

Even on a good day, landing a parachute is like running down a flight of stairs. On bad, day, it is like tumbling down a flight of stairs!

[Squeak 17]

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Well, after a lot of thinking and other things, I have come to a decision that I am NOT coming back to doing solos again.

It is a painful decision and something I am not real happy about, but it is the best decision, esp since I struggle so much with anxiety. I don't want to be a danger to myself OR to others in the sky.

I am going to stick with doing tandems (and tandem formations with friends), since that is a safeR way to be in the sky.

Thanks you all for putting up with all my crazy questions.

FIFY

Glad you came to a decision, Hope to see you at Snore in 4 weeks

You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky)
My Life ROCKS!
How's yours doing?

[guineapiggie101 0]

Squeak, how long you gonna be at Snore???

It will be cool to meet ya.

[pincheck 0]

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May I suggest hiking and cross-country running?

As soon as your doctor approves, take progressively longer walks, then walks on rough terrain, then jogging on gentle grassy paths, eventually leading to roaring up and down steep, rough hillsides. The process will require a year - or more of hard work - but you will end up with stronger legs and less fear of hard landings.

Even on a good day, landing a parachute is like running down a flight of stairs. On bad, day, it is like tumbling down a flight of stairs!

you know Rob that was going to be my suggestion
guineapiggie101 you are the one who has to decided for yourself, on what you want to do here. Regardless of what you decide you have our respect for facing the question head on. As Rob said you may want to take your time not make a decision now but go try and build up the strength you need first. Good luck to you whatever you decided

Billy-Sonic Haggis Flickr-Fun

[Squeak 17]

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Squeak, how long you gonna be at Snore???

It will be cool to meet ya.

i arrive on the 13th to LAX so will be at Snore that following weekend, Im then off to Eloy

You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky)
My Life ROCKS!
How's yours doing?

[guineapiggie101 0]

UPDATE:

I went to see my ortho specialist today for my 6 mo checkup of the leg. Leg is healing well and looks well.

The specialist does agree with some of the posters here, that once i heal up fully (which will be in another 6 months), that I will get the plates taken out. He did say that people who did get the plates taken out, usually do pretty well vs leaving them in.

Hope to have that surgery later this fall and that will end that chapter in my life.

As for solo skydiving, I'm not coming back. I'm happy doing tandems since it takes the fear out of it and I still get to be in the sky and hang out with my friends.