Handle options (for main)?

[likestojump 3]

I am pretty sure he is pointing out how a large amount of real field data disagrees with your statement.

My personal choice is a medium sized leather hackey or a PVC tube mounted with a piece of tape fed through it and holding it down at both ends with the handle taped around to close the side openings.

I find hackey/monkey fist much easier to grab as you can reach back with a slit between a set of fingers and have a solid grasp of the handle. With a freefly pud its usually a struggle of using all fingertips, especially if it also has a side chip that tucks under the separate flap.

I would say that overall the eaisest thing to do when you enjoy a hackey but want more security is use something the a poster a few post above posted a picture of - a hackey with a tucking side flap (i believe thats a Mirage thing), that sits very secure, but is also very easy to grab/ pull.

[JohnMitchell 14]

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Yes they do.
But does that make it safer?

It seems you are saying that fashion = good, safe, correct.
And I do not agree with that.

I've had two premature openings, one on climbout, one while sitflying. Both were with pullouts. Although I don't free fly much, I've never had a premature opening jumping a hackey or PVC pipe. I currently have PVC but want to switch to hackey because they're easier to grab.

Have hackies really caused that many premature openings? I haven't seen or heard of many, but I don't know everything. I know a lot of folks that free fly hackies all the time and I haven't seen any problems. And trust me, I don't think fashionable= correct. I lived through the carnage of the gear revolution. I still use a hard helmet, RSL, AAD and a 1.3 loaded canopy, even if that does seem kind of uncool.

[riggerrob 558]

"

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... The issue ... with the standard orange tube is sticking a finger in it by accident...

.............................................................................

Red necks solve that problem with duct tape.
Soldiers solve the problem with gun tape.
Technicians solve the problem with gaffer's tape.
While snobs solve the problem with wine corks!

[Squeak 17]

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Have hackies really caused that many premature openings? I haven't seen or heard of many, but I don't know everything. I know a lot of folks that free fly hackies all the time and I haven't seen any problems. And trust me, I don't think fashionable= correct. I lived through the carnage of the gear revolution. I still use a hard helmet, RSL, AAD and a 1.3 loaded canopy, even if that does seem kind of uncool.

Poorly maintained BOCs are what have caused the Premmies that i have seen.

I've 1200 jumps with a monkey fist, 3rd BOC on my HnC never even a remote issue with PC slippage.

You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky)
My Life ROCKS!
How's yours doing?

[muff528 3]

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... The issue ... with the standard orange tube is sticking a finger in it by accident...

.............................................................................

Red necks solve that problem with duct tape.
Soldiers solve the problem with gun tape.
Technicians solve the problem with gaffer's tape.
While snobs solve the problem with wine corks!

Down here in Polk County us snobs use fishing corks to keep our pinkies out of trouble. ....I use this kind (without the peg).

[JohnMitchell 14]

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Poorly maintained BOCs are what have caused the Premmies that i have seen.

I've 1200 jumps with a monkey fist, 3rd BOC on my HnC never even a remote issue with PC slippage.

That's what I thought too, slack old pouches with no elasticity. Some of the best skydivers I know jump hackies all over the world. I haven't heard them complain yet.

[SStewart 13]

I have also jumped just about every type of handle used in the last 30 years and the monkeyfist is my current favorite. I also have two hackeys on my other rigs.

If these types of handles are not secure then it is because of the condition or location of the boc pouch or because of the way the handle is attached to the pilot chute.

When properly rigged and maintained these types of handles are very secure, easy to locate and pull.

As John has pointed out these are the most commonly used all over the world.

Onward and Upward!

[-ftp- 0]

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I usually push in the freefly pud so that it stays secure in the BOC, but that also means that it is hard to grab, I usually have to grab it with one finger on top and one at the bottom (short ends of it).
That has lead to me losing the handle a few times but I don't think it is much of a problem.

Have you put any thought into trying something else? I mean, it essentially sounds like you purposefully pack you PC to be a hard pull....

[kkeenan 13]

The PC handle on my CRW rig is a stuffed green frog. I wouldn't consider it to be Freefly Friendly, but in CRW, if you're head down, you have more issues to deal with than a PC handle.

Kevin K

_____________________________________
Dude, you are so awesome...
Can I be on your ash jump ?

[Hellis 0]

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I usually push in the freefly pud so that it stays secure in the BOC, but that also means that it is hard to grab, I usually have to grab it with one finger on top and one at the bottom (short ends of it).
That has lead to me losing the handle a few times but I don't think it is much of a problem.

Have you put any thought into trying something else? I mean, it essentially sounds like you purposefully pack you PC to be a hard pull....

Not hard pull as in I need muscles to get it out, but yes it is harder to get than a hackey.
It has worked great the last 178 times (according to my Cypres), and I have no worries about it.
Having a handle that stand out is scary to me.

[-ftp- 0]

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I usually push in the freefly pud so that it stays secure in the BOC, but that also means that it is hard to grab, I usually have to grab it with one finger on top and one at the bottom (short ends of it).
That has lead to me losing the handle a few times but I don't think it is much of a problem.

Have you put any thought into trying something else? I mean, it essentially sounds like you purposefully pack you PC to be a hard pull....

Not hard pull as in I need muscles to get it out, but yes it is harder to get than a hackey.
It has worked great the last 178 times (according to my Cypres), and I have no worries about it.
Having a handle that stand out is scary to me.

same has been said by many dead people, just a thought....

[Hellis 0]

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I usually push in the freefly pud so that it stays secure in the BOC, but that also means that it is hard to grab, I usually have to grab it with one finger on top and one at the bottom (short ends of it).
That has lead to me losing the handle a few times but I don't think it is much of a problem.

Have you put any thought into trying something else? I mean, it essentially sounds like you purposefully pack you PC to be a hard pull....

Not hard pull as in I need muscles to get it out, but yes it is harder to get than a hackey.
It has worked great the last 178 times (according to my Cypres), and I have no worries about it.
Having a handle that stand out is scary to me.

same has been said by many dead people, just a thought....

Lots of people worry about walking across the street, and they also die.
So whats your point?

Dropping/losing your handle is not a malfunction in a throw out rig with a competent skydiver.
However if the same happend to a student, it would be worse.

[DaVinciflies 0]

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Dropping/losing your handle is not a malfunction in a throw out rig with a competent skydiver.

Not being able to find/operate your main handle is a total malfunction.

[rehmwa 2]

Hackey or fist (same thing, cosmetic differences only IMO) - watch videos, those things are flopping around like crazy, I don't trust them at all. That said, people use them all the time - I had one for 15 years with no issues (I just hate how they bounce around). If I have one, I pack it deep inside the pocket, and the pull it barely out so that the spandex edge is against it holding it down somewhat - so it has a better chance of being still in the air flow. I think a tuck tab would solve all my issues with my impressions of hackey - haven't had one like that.

PVC - I have no issues with these. Best when they are sewn down on both edges (tape through it, not a single point). We have a video of a jumper catching his finger in another jumper's tubePC on exit - it was an ugly sequence. Lightweight, but the empty hole seems like an unnecessary snag. I don't know why they don't cap the ends or make it solid.

Puds (NOT "freefly" pud, just pud, c'mon) - I think this is the best version - it sits against the container and is much better protected against snags in and out of the airplane than the others (IMHO). I like a straight pud without tuck tabs best - like the Sunpath pud - it stays very still in freefall, but is easy to find and pull and still is very snag free in the plane and the air - would be nice if it had a small tuck tab. The Mirage Pud has a hefty tuck tab and a tapered profile (wider at the PC attachment narrow as it moves out board - it's so well designed to avoid snags, that it's almost too hard to find and grasp for me when I have gloves. I think the Mirage style pud is the best design (they really a lot of thought into everything from what I can tell) but I'd reduce the taper, personally, and have a smaller tuck tab if I could - then that would be my preference. I tried to draw the two in the attachment (sloppily - yellow is the handle but the corners all are rounded, blue represents the apex part of the PC). I have both types of rigs and both makes of puds. I can't comment to other offerings from other manufacturers (my 3rd rig is a Vector, but very old and it has PVC).


that said - keep your pounch spandex well maintained - you vidiot deserves it - so do you

Key things to think about - snag hazzard, ease of grasping, is it still in freefall and while standing in the door (or is it just rattling all over the place)


baby heads, special designs, etc - meh. all those I've seen look like snag hazzards to me. But I guess if someone wants to be cute.....

edit: for the newbies that don't know. A 'tuck tab' = pretty much a flat stiffener sewn into the junction of the hackey/pud and PC. you tuck that into the bridle protection flap and it greatly restrains the handle.



YMMV

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[Hellis 0]

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Dropping/losing your handle is not a malfunction in a throw out rig with a competent skydiver.

Not being able to find/operate your main handle is a total malfunction.

Yes?
But that is not what I'm saying, is it?

I will try to keep it simple for you!
You grab the PC handle.
You pull it.
During the pull you loose grip of it.
One of these three things can happen.
1. The PC catches air and you have a canopy
2. The PC stays in behind you for a second or two and then inflates -> canopy.
3. The PC is still in your pouch, and you can grab it again -> canopy.

As I was saying, for a student/low jump person the scenario above might be a problem, but for everyone else it should not.

[piisfish 135]

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Puds (NOT "freefly" pud, just pud, c'mon) - I think this is the best version - would be nice if it had a small tuck tab. The Mirage Pud has a hefty tuck tab and a tapered profile

The Basik pud on the Seven is beautiful, and best combined with the cordura pouch and the magnet tab

IMO the best version of pud so far.

scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

[fasted3 0]

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Dropping/losing your handle is not a malfunction in a throw out rig with a competent skydiver.

Not being able to find/operate your main handle is a total malfunction.

Yes?
But that is not what I'm saying, is it?

I will try to keep it simple for you!
You grab the PC handle.
You pull it.
During the pull you loose grip of it.
One of these three things can happen.
1. The PC catches air and you have a canopy
2. The PC stays in behind you for a second or two and then inflates -> canopy.
3. The PC is still in your pouch, and you can grab it again -> canopy.

As I was saying, for a student/low jump person the scenario above might be a problem, but for everyone else it should not.

4. PC comes out, bounces around in the burble and ties itself in a knot.

A problem for just about anyone, I think.

But what do I know?

[rehmwa 2]

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The Basik pud on the Seven

I only recognize three words in there: The, on, pud

what manufacturer? Or can you send a link or picture?




Edit: found it. thanks for the reference - more and more rig manufacturers do seem to be appearing, don't they?

The pud picture I see on Basik's website

At first glance, the pics look pretty bulky (not low profile enough (for me)), but the details in the product description and the closeup pics look a bit more intriguing.

As I said - YMMV. It all depends on what each jumper values most.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[piisfish 135]

Shoot a PM to BKR here on the forum, he seems to know the Basik rigs quite a bit (he is actually the manufacturer). Also his rigs are distributed in the US by ChutingStar IIRC.

His rigs are on the European market for over 10 years I believe, and in the US for 2-3 I think

scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

[-ftp- 0]

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I usually push in the freefly pud so that it stays secure in the BOC, but that also means that it is hard to grab, I usually have to grab it with one finger on top and one at the bottom (short ends of it).
That has lead to me losing the handle a few times but I don't think it is much of a problem.

Have you put any thought into trying something else? I mean, it essentially sounds like you purposefully pack you PC to be a hard pull....

Not hard pull as in I need muscles to get it out, but yes it is harder to get than a hackey.
It has worked great the last 178 times (according to my Cypres), and I have no worries about it.
Having a handle that stand out is scary to me.

same has been said by many dead people, just a thought....

Lots of people worry about walking across the street, and they also die.
So whats your point?
Dropping/losing your handle is not a malfunction in a throw out rig with a competent skydiver.
However if the same happend to a student, it would be worse.

my point is you are inventing your own way to do something in a sport that has other better proven methods. I am not saying things can't change (and shouldn't) but your "method" of packing a pilot chute seems borderline idiotic IMHO.

All I was trying to make you do was think about it, but like many other hurt/dead people, your way must be better. I wish you luck.

[muff528 3]

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Dropping/losing your handle is not a malfunction in a throw out rig with a competent skydiver.

Not being able to find/operate your main handle is a total malfunction.

Yes?
But that is not what I'm saying, is it?

I will try to keep it simple for you!
You grab the PC handle.
You pull it.
During the pull you loose grip of it.
One of these three things can happen.
1. The PC catches air and you have a canopy
2. The PC stays in behind you for a second or two and then inflates -> canopy.
3. The PC is still in your pouch, and you can grab it again -> canopy.

As I was saying, for a student/low jump person the scenario above might be a problem, but for everyone else it should not.

4. The PC snags the GoPro* -> canopy ...but you don't really want it.

* foot, arm, flap, neck, flag, smoke canister, etc, etc.